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something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

Horse Care
#181

I too, would be afraid of a massive die-off and subsequent toxicity from the dead parasites in this horse’s case. Not to mention the potential for a blockage. (I squirt the paste into a half-scoop of pellets and they scarf it down - poor starved horses LOL)

If it were me… I would do normal dosage of ivermectin, then 10 days later the 1.5x anthelcide and then 10 days later something stronger or even a double dose.
One linked article mentioned giving the horse banamine before deworming to reduce the chance of results of associated inflamation. I don’t think i can find the article again, but it was regarding the chance of uveitis from dead threadworms (?) and it was give banamine 3-5 days before, day of and ?? days after.

#182

At this point of the thread, I’m ready to!!! Do you think it would kill me?:dead:

#183

EqT and others-what are your thoughts for A2 starting with a normal dose of a milder dewormer-like a normal dose of Strongid-then coming in with Anthelcide then Ivermectrin…maybe 2 weeks apart.

THEN coming in with the big double Equimax guns?

#184

If I was A2 I would definitely start with something mild like a dose of ivermectin. That is what I was told to do by my vet when I rescued a horse once and hadn’t know when he had been wormed last.

#185

That is fine as long as she does a NORMAL dose. Not a half dose, not part of a tube. She needs to do a whole tube. I would not wait two weeks. I might wait a week.

If I were in the mood to be cautious, I would do a tube of Strongid, then two tubes. Then a tube of Ivermectin, then two tubes. Then two tubes of Equimax.

As soon as it was PP time I’d do that too.

Heck… how do we know - given what we now know - that horses with big worm loads aren’t having laminitic issues because of THAT? Laminitis begins in the hind gut. Read those studies about what worms are doing to the horses digestive tract. Hmmmm.

Honestly… I’ve never had anything horrible happen over deworming. Really. I DO back off when the horse is actively laminitic. I do give MSM at the high dose if I have concerns. I would not do Banamine, it is a NSAID and their liver is going to take a big enough hit as it is.

#186

Good info. Thanks. I had no idea if that article suggesting use of banamine was valid or not.

So far as large parasite loads and laminitis … interesting concept along the lines of your metabolic issues caused by diet and parasite load, yes??

#187

EqT but you do not do daily Strongid, correct?

If so, why…if not, why not?:slight_smile:

#188

I do not.

I have a lot of reasons, they don’t all tie together… yet :lol:

First, I have had some long conversations with surgeons at NCSU. They say that they see a correlation between horses on it and worm damage on the surgery (colic) table. Now… does that mean that it is ineffective or that the horses who are on it, are not being otherwise dewormed properly? Because we have all known the person who puts their horse on DDW and then only gives it a tube of Ivermectin twice a year after that. Anyway, I don’t know. I do know that the idea, IMO, could lead to resistance. I have seen at so many boarding barns - I am a lurker, and people get used to me being around :wink: - where the DDW is not given, or is given 2x a day, or only on the weekend, or only when someone remembers, or is thrown away because the owner is on their way. Perhaps if it were used - at the right doseage - every day, with a very comprehensive deworming program also being implemented, it would be helpful. I’m not going to try it.

Second, a high number of horses I have had come here who were IR were on it at some time in their life. Yes, I do believe there is a correlation between worm loads and IR. Again, who knows if it was administered properly but the number of horses who were on it is, IMO, disproportionate.

Last, the idea of it seems skewed to me. As much as I believe parasites are a bigger problem than we have been led to believe… I also don’t like the idea of DAILY dewormer. I would like their bodies to have a chance to recover. Once a horse here is deemed healthy, I do cut back their dewormings to a more “reasonable” schedule.

Anyway, that’s how I feel about it.

#189

After reading this last page+ of info related to the bile duct, IR, laminitis, etc, I’m sending a friend over to read this thread - her horse, granted a breed already prone to IR, has recently become laminitic - first time was deemed to be related to Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (yes, a horse, quite rare), but has supposedly recovered from that and is laminitic again, no apparent reason. She had (HAD!) all her horses on a DW for 15 years or so, until FECs started regularly showing a parasite load. I don’t recall how many years they have been off the DW. Things that make you go Hmmmm…

Last, the idea of it seems skewed to me. As much as I believe parasites are a bigger problem than we have been led to believe… I also don’t like the idea of DAILY dewormer. I would like their bodies to have a chance to recover. Once a horse here is deemed healthy, I do cut back their dewormings to a more “reasonable” schedule.

Anyway, that’s how I feel about it.

Deeming a horse healthy has a lot to do with how you/we feed our horses. Feeding them for optimal health makes them much stronger against parasites. I think people tend to forget, or never knew, how big of a role the immune system plays in a horse’s own parasite management.

#190

Wow

I had no idea. I’m going to pass this along to some friends and if they go through with it I’ll post back here.

#191

[QUOTE=JB;3460266]
After reading this last page+ of info related to the bile duct, IR, laminitis, etc, I’m sending a friend over to read this thread - her horse, granted a breed already prone to IR, has recently become laminitic - first time was deemed to be related to Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (yes, a horse, quite rare), but has supposedly recovered from that and is laminitic again, no apparent reason. She had (HAD!) all her horses on a DW for 15 years or so, until FECs started regularly showing a parasite load. I don’t recall how many years they have been off the DW. Things that make you go Hmmmm…

.[/QUOTE]

I am the friend JB sent this thread info to. Sad to say…

This thread has been more than eye opening!

My horse has been through the mill since being diagnosed with RMSF…now she is a bit laminitc as JB said…not textbook, but some signs and the vets are still not sure why .

She was diagnosed on 4/10 and was put on doxycycline for 7 weeks, amongst a myriad of other drugs, Tourbogesic, Banamine and Equimax, etc…she recovered, but I decided to leave her alone, no work until 9/1…no spring vaccines, only the necessary titers and a grass/mineral diet.

Now she has come up with this and I want to get to the bottom of it. This thread has put a whole new light in it.

She had been on DDW for 15 years, until about 3 years ago, when her fecal results came back and the count was too high. Since then, her count has been negligible on a different program. BUT…now, with this new info, I am a bit freaked out.

She is being referred to the NCSU-SVM next week for more evaluation and I definitely will bring up the NTW issue…BLECH!

Good info from all, thanks for the research that has been done, I have a day of reading ahead of me!

I hope that the diagnosis can be as “simple” as NTW…

Strangely enough, this same girl had a torn suspensory a few years ago…so this thread has really piqued my interest.

Thanks JB.

#192

Hi paso, glad you made it! :smiley: Do you feel like you need a shower yet? :eek:

#193

[QUOTE=JB;3462277]
Hi paso, glad you made it! :smiley: Do you feel like you need a shower yet? :eek:[/QUOTE]

OMG - it gave me the heebie jeebies just thinking what she “could” have…not to mention that I have a Qtr horse that I “thought” was attacked by fire ants with bites all over her, but OMG, could it be NTW? Parasites???

Just plain nasty! Although, treatable which would make me deliriously happy!

#194

Do let us know what NCSU says about the NTW’s. My money is on that they have no idea.

#195

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered previously.

Could you do the double dose of Equimax on a pregnant (possibly) and nursing mare? a foal?

I ask because she has had bumps on her neck and face since I bought her a little over a month ago and I’m wondering if this may be the culprit.

Thanks!

#196

Oh my, remember sunnybojack’s “fireant” horse??

#197

YES JB - I do remember her post about the bumps on her horse and what is worse, I remember the pics!

Is there a way to test for the NTW or is deworming the only way…if it cures the bumps? Has anyone researched that ?

EqTrainer - I will definitely let you know if the NCSU-SVM has any idea about them. My appt is tentatively 9-11.

#198

Second double dose today -

Well, I did my second double dose of Equimax today.

Any idea when I should see substantial un-itchiness? (I know thats not a word):wink:

And when should I resume her normal worming schedule? Don’t know if that has been brought up yet. Thanks!

#199

Well, I double dosed my 9 year old with Equimax the other night. She is the one that itches her belly by laying down and positioning a hind leg just right and rocking back and forth. I haven’t seen a change yet. She was mopey yesterday which was the day after worming and it scared the crap out of me. Especially when I came home and she wasn’t coming out of her stall when I called to her. This morning she was actually out of her stall which is unusual for her, she is usually hiding in her stall from the bugs. She looked bright eyed and happy, so I was relieved that I didn’t kill her.:slight_smile:

I didn’t have any more Equimax so I double dosed my six year old with ivermectin. She seemed her usual obnoxious self yesterday.

#200

The studies that were done, using large doses of ivermectin every 3 months, did not include the praziquantel. So, I would be curious if using 1 Equimax and 1 ivermectin instead of the 2 Equimax, would be as effective. It would still be the large ivermectin dose with the standard praziquantel. Following up, of course, with a repeat in 2 weeks.

As we know, ivermectin is safe for very large doses… (5 times?)

This would be for those who may have doubts about double-dosing Equimax/praziquantel.

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