something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

[Camelot]

Here are my updates. My 13 yr. old Haflinger mare was a raw mess from underneath her forelegs to back up under her hing legs. She also was rubbing raw spots on her face and if she could get her chest up against something she would rub it raw also. No mane or tail rubbing. This has progressively gotten worse over the past 4 summers. I rotate wormer products every two months like clockwork starting with a Panacur Powerpack on Jan. 1st.

She was double-dosed with Equimax for the first time on Aug. 20th. There seemed to be a marked improvement in her itchiness for a few days then she was back to her usual level. She was double-dosed again on Sept. 3rd and nothing significant changed. She still had some quarter-sized raw spots on her belly and she was still picking her a back leg and reaching her head around as far as she could to scratch herself with her teeth.

I double-dosed her with generic Ivermectin on Sept. 17th because I had it on hand. Just watched her this morning scratch a new raw spot with her teeth.

My 24 yr. old QH gelding I double-dosed with Equimax on Aug. 23rd. While not itching as much as the mare, he appeared to have fly bites all over and some patchy bald spots that may or may not have been rain scald. Last summer he did quite a lot of getting down on the ground to scratch his belly in the dirt. I did not witness that at all this summer.

He received a second double-dose on Sept. 6th. The only improvement I’ve noted is his winter hair coat is coming on nicely and the fly bites seem to have healed. That could also be from our weather turning cooler and the bug population being on the decline.

He’s lost some condition this summer and my vet yesterday suggested I have a fecal count done. This came back clean which doesn’t surprise me after two double-doses of Equimax in the past 4 weeks. I do have a double-dose of generic Ivermectin I planned to give him on Saturday but I may instead save it for another time.

I think for my two rat study my results are inconclusive and I can not say for certain that neck thread worms were the problem for my two horses. I would surmise that my mare’s problem is more likely a true sweet itch / bug bite allergy. My old gelding was used mostly as a control. I’ve only had him about 18 months and I know his previous level of health care was lacking. The extra worming certainly didn’t hurt him and I have proof that he had a clean fecal test afterwards.

So my testing concludes with a big ol’ Maybe result.

[Robin]

Lower cost wormer suggestions and a question

For those of you who want a slightly lower cost for worming or have a
lot of horses to worm, I have these ideas to offer. I have a boarding
stable and have as many as 50 horses to worm at one time; I have
shopped carefully for wormer for years. I just received a new catalog
from Stockmen’s supply of North Dakota (www.stockmens.com
800-437-4064) and they have Safe-Guard Paste Wormer in the big
290 g tube for $38.90. This is enough to do a power pack worming
for an average saddle horse. When I ordered this from them, they
sent the gun out with the order for free. I don’t know if they always
do that so ask about it if you decide to order from them. They also
have generic ivermectin injectible liquid for $99.50 for a 500 ml bottle.
That would be enough to do 50 regular doses for a 1100 lb horse
(told you I had a lot of horses to worm). I have used cattle injectible
ivermectin wormer for years by feeding it to horses and have never
had a problem other than an occasional horse who won’t eat his dose
on ground beet pulp (those get it syringed into the mouth). I was able
for a time to get Privermectin liquid labelled for horses which was even
cheaper ($1.29 per horse for 1100 lb dose) but it is off the market at
this time for some reason.

I am wondering about using a double dose of pyrantel pamoate along
with ivermectin rather than buying a wormer with ivermectin and
praziquantel. Before praziquantel became available for horses, the
usual advice for tapeworm treatment for the horse was pyrantel
pamoate at double the regular dose. It probably would not be any
cheaper to go this route, but might be easier to administer for those
of us who would rather use liquid instead of paste.

Anybody got an easy way to get over the counter drugs from Egypt?
I hear you can buy praziquantel there very inexpensively.

[gabz]

Generic ivermectin paste can be bought for around $3. I would think that double-dosing that would be the cheapest of any of the paste dewormers. Including praziquantel is a definite plus.

Buying in large quantities is also a way to reduce the price. I saw Bimectrin for $2.99 at KV Vet and 2.88 at horse.com (Country Supply). Free shipping at $50 and $49 respectively. This is the apple flavored ivermectin, treats up to 1250 pound horse single dose.

Agri-mectin and Horse Health ivermectin are typically the cheapest ivermectins… American Livestock Supply, Jeffers, Valley Vet, Chick’s Saddlery, KV Vet. So it’s a matter of finding the cheapest shipping.
google > shopping “ivermectin” shows prices from $2.64 on up for generic ivermectin paste)

(KV Vet coupon code 54 for $5 off any order)

[Cashela]

I did a single dose of ivermectin on the girls again last night. I will update if anything happens. I almost didn’t do it because Kit has finally cleared up most of her issues from the last single dose. Crick still has the lumps on her flank.

[appychik]

I’ve been following this thread for a while now, and I’d really like to do this double dose Ivermection/Equimax on my boys… just not sure if I should do it on the one or not.

Gus has always had an itchy butt… like he’ll almost rub his tail off at the top during the summer months. This year it’s not been as bad, but he’s still quite obviously rubbing (buckets are always crooked… and he prefers to rub against buckets over anything else).

However, Gus is in a boarding situation and the BO doesn’t want us deworming on our own. I know she worms every other month. Pretty sure he should have been done within the first week of September, but can check with her to verify that.

Gringo has no issues and is boarding at another location. I deworm him every 6 weeks, rotating. Last time was August 23rd with a generic Ivermection.

Would you do the DD on both of these? Just Gus (and forget about the BO?) or what? I really think both could benefit from the DD but don’t want to get those horrible reactions and then get “in trouble” from Gus’s BO because I went behind her back… see what I mean?

What would you do?

[JB]

@appychik;3525707

BO doesn’t want us deworming on our own.

What would you do?

Your horse, your choice It’s not like you’re asking her to skip a deworming. Tell her the deal, tell her you are going to do it.

Check with some of the folks on this thread, as well as your vet, about using benadryl if he should get really itchy, or even dex or prednisolone depending on the situation. I could see the BO having an issue if your guy starts to tear the barn down itching as the critters migrate

[gabz]

Um … I realize that BOs need to be sure that all horses are dewormed at the same time. However, if it were me, I would discuss it with her because (1)… I want my horse(s) dewormed more frequently; (2) I want more control over my horse.

As JB pointed out you don’t want to do this without notifying the BO due to the fact that your horse might get worse before he gets better.

Without knowing your relationship with your BO (and I know that some BOs can intimidate horse owners and make us feel like simpletons) I suggest that you gather your facts (not the posts, but rather the linked articles about NTWs with the info that goes back so many years) and tell her that you want to try the DD Emax on your horse and follow it up with another DD as needed. Your timing could be the 3rd week after the last BO deworming, which gives you the time to do the both of the DDs before the next regularly scheduled BO deworming.
More frequent dewormings will NOT be bad and will have no impact on whatever rotation the BO uses.
And, you can also discuss with your vet before discussing with the BO to get the added support.

Who knows, maybe the BO will want to use the treatment on some of the other horses. :winkgrin:

[goodgal]

I’m so sad, it didn’t work for my horse, :no: I had such high hopes. I double dosed with Equimax, saw no improvement at all. Double dosed two weeks later (which was this past Monday) and he is still itching and still has those awful welts all over his body, I think they are worse.

[12hooves]

I haven’t had much luck double dosing either. But what gets me is I have had horses and been around them for years, and have only been seeing this skin condition in the last couple years. What the heck is really going on??? I don’t doubt the NTW’s and other bugs are there, its just that they’ve always been there, but not the extreme reaction, skin hives, scratching, etc.

[Lieslot]

Hydroxyzine might help the itch symptoms.

I just wanted to say, I wished I’d known about this 2 years ago. I’ve been hooked reading this thread for the last 2 hours and now it’s way past my bedtime…

I had a TB with severe sweet itch, wrapped in a boett blanket and on steroids to no avail.
Skin was bleeding and oozing. He was on a rotational worming program, but never did any DD Equimax or the likes, as I truly wasn’t aware of NTW and vet never brought this up either.

At present I have a horse with bumps in the girth region (no itch however), vet given me all sorts of washes and I bought him new girth and sleeves etc.
But bumps not going away. So I will try this DD EM protocol too.

Just wished to add/share, for those searching for relief of itchiness for their horses (not a cure, just masking symptoms)
My TB did not respond to steroids, the itch continued. My vet said she’d seen succes in itching dogs with a different type of anti-histamine : Hydroxyzine.
This stuff was a life-saver for my TB, within days the symptoms disappeared and his skin healed. However each spring the itches & skin breaks/oozes would be back, so we had to put him on Hydroxyzine every summer and he’d be itchfree and no skin lesions.
I can’t report on more then 2 summers, as I lost him to colic thereafter.
I now wished I could go back in time and try this DD EM protocol…

[jumpingpercheron]

[QUOTE=jumpingpercheron;3509893]

After reading through this about everyone ordering their shipments of Equimax I bet there’s a few retailers wondering where the hell this sudden demand for Equimax came from :lol:[/QUOTE]

@JB;3510291

lmao, I was wondering the same thing, especially after someone posted they ordered 60 tubes :lol:

FYI, horse.com is now OUT of Equimax!!! It says they will get it back in stock on the 26th.
So then I go look at SmartPak, and their “Top Picks” on the wormer page are Equimax and Ivercare :lol:

[LMH]

[QUOTE=12hooves;3526644]
I haven’t had much luck double dosing either. But what gets me is I have had horses and been around them for years, and have only been seeing this skin condition in the last couple years. What the heck is really going on??? I don’t doubt the NTW’s and other bugs are there, its just that they’ve always been there, but not the extreme reaction, skin hives, scratching, etc.[/QUOTE]

THIS is the question of the day…same for many things…why so many IR horse as well??

[goodgal]

[QUOTE=LMH;3526776]
THIS is the question of the day…same for many things…why so many IR horse as well??[/QUOTE]

I bet it has something to do with the products that are put into their feed that kills their immune system!! Same as us humans, I felt my best EVER when I started eating organic foods but eventually stopped because it was killing my pocket. Even medications have long term effects on the body. Makes you wonder…

[gabz]

Habronema article

This is from the Australian Brunswick Vet Hospital site…
http://www.brunswickvet.com.au/Templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?Story_No=1287&specie=6

Summer Sores develop from the deposition of Habronema worm larvae in fresh wounds and moist areas of the eyes and sheath by infected house and stable flies. It is most common from spring to autumn when flies ‘worry’ wounds, the face and sheath.

Adult Habronema worms live in nodules in the stomach wall. Eggs passed in the manure are ingested by developing fly pupae. Re-infection and spread is mainly by ingestion of live or dead flies in feed, or when horses lick wounds in which the larvae are present.
Symptoms of summer sores Open wounds that start healing well with normal pink granulation tissue become infested with Habronema larvae introduced by house or stable flies
Larvae migrate into the wounds to form hard nodules of raised red-brown tissue
Similar nodules may form on the conjunctiva of the eyes, lining of the sheath and urethral opening of the penis.
The lesions enlarge and spread slowly, and to relieve the irritation horses bite or rub wounds
Large nodules may bleed, ulcerate and weep yellowish or clear tissue fluid
This attracts more flies, and if they are carrying Habronema larvae, the size of the lesion and degree of irritation worsens.

Treatment and control of summer sores Larvae in the summer sore lesions, and the adult worms in the stomach can be controlled with a worming paste or liquid, such as Equimax, Equiminth, Equest or Equimec, administered at regular worming intervals of 6 – 8 weeks during the high risk period (consult your vet for advice) Control of flies is essential to prevent wound infestation with larvae
Keep wounds clean and dry to promote healing and make them less attractive to flies
Applications of Septicide Antiseptic Cream or Cetrigen spray will repel flies from healing wounds – also apply each morning to the skin surrounding fresh open wounds to reduce fly worry and risk of summer sores
Stable and yard hygiene is essential to reduce fly breeding
Once infection appears, veterinary treatment to remove large nodules, particularly around the eyes or sheath, may be necessary. Consult your vet for advice.
Fly veils fitted during daylight for paddocked horses will reduce the incidence of lesions in the eyes
Daily applications of fly repellant cream to the front border of the sheath, particularly when flies are in plague proportions, are also recommended.

And… perhaps the higher incidence of this is caused by… (1) increasing resistance; (2) higher numbers of horses kept in smaller areas due to loss of farmland; (3) greater knowledge of it through the internet.

[JB]

@gabz;3527084

greater knowledge of it through the internet.

I’d bet this is the biggest role. We’ve had a few folks on this/related threads say they’ve been battling “allergies” for YEARS, like 10+. Think of how many horses you’ve heard of, in the past, who “couldn’t have Spring grass” or who were always NQR, or who could do/eat anything until they hit about age 15, etc. I think many of these things HAVE been around for a long time.

[Lieslot]

Bleh, late nite reading no good for me, now I can’t seem to remember why it was concluded double dose needed?

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120738024/abstract

It is concluded that the oral paste formulation of ivermectin, although not effective against adult onchocerca, is useful for the therapeutic control of microfilarias in the skin lesions of equine onchocerciasis.

So repeated double dose Ivermectin ‘will’ kill “adult” onchocerca, we reckon???

So now I need to figure out how much… Until today my worming strategy has been as follows : overdose in quantity but not in frequency.
Basically big horses, off the weight tape, vets not sure about weight, some have said to me 1500lbs others have guessed them at 1800lbs. As a result I have always wormed my guys with 2 full tubes (of any wormer)
They had 2 full tubes of Equest Plus about 6 weeks ago.

Do I now give them 4 tubes of Equimax in one go and repeat in 2 weeks? Surely that’s going to be overkill and I feel rather freaked out about it. I thought about it long before finally falling asleep last night, and figured I feel comfortable with 2,5 tubes of Equimax each or 3 tubes Ivermectin each. Any thoughts anyone? This should do the job too right??

Again they have no itchy symptoms, no hair loss symptoms, only a few tiny lumps in the girth region at elbow height, that doesn’t go away with washing nor girth alternatives, nor a weeklong of rest. Thanks everyone!

[Simkie]

@Lieslot;3527365

Do I now give them 4 tubes of Equimax in one go and repeat in 2 weeks? Surely that’s going to be overkill and I feel rather freaked out about it. I thought about it long before finally falling asleep last night, and figured I feel comfortable with 2,5 tubes of Equimax each or 3 tubes Ivermectin each. Any thoughts anyone? This should do the job too right??

I would use the “New Model 1” formula from this page: http://ojas.ucok.edu/02/papers/hapgood02.htm to accurately estimate weight and then treat with a double dose based on that.

[Cinnybren]

I have one of my three at the farm that was itchy and would get sores on her face and big “chunky” dandruff itchy spots on her body. So a friend told me to take a look at this thread. I did and looked up Onchocerca online:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/71804.htm&hide=1

This looks exaclty like what she has. So, I talked to my vet about the double dose two weeks apart… he recommended a full dose of Ivermectin once a week for three weeks. Since he’s my vet, and I value his opinion, I will use his protocol. However, I still wondered why I just had one having problems. My mare is a big German girl, so I thought, “Ya know, I really should get a weight tape and see just how much she weighs…” I did and ugh! I am SUCH a bad horse mom! I’ve been underdosing her, which would explain why two are fine and she isn’t. So, I gave her a correct dosage for her 1400 lb frame last Monday. Her face is already clearing up and I see fewer rub spots on her body.

Anyway, this has been a terriffic thread and I wanted to give a shout out to the importance of knowing how much your horse weighs so you can give the correct dose of whatever de-wormer you are using.

[Lieslot]

@Simkie

I would use the “New Model 1” formula from this page: http://ojas.ucok.edu/02/papers/hapgood02.htm to accurately estimate weight and then treat with a double dose based on that.

Simkie awesome, they’ll both get measured tonight :)!
I didn’t realize there are so many weight measurement calculations out there.
Well, model 1 it shall be. THANKS!

[gabz]

And to those who wish to use a typical measuring tape. Stop at a sewing / craft / quilt supply store and buy a quilting tape measure. It’s MUCH longer than the regular ones.
Or - use NON stretchy string and measure that.