Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

Horse Care
#621

Update on Kiger Caliente/3-day

It’s been 3 days and he’s pretty much stopped itching, no visible welts or lumps. His ventral line had 2 new serum seeping spots but he doesn’t seem to be miserable anymore. We had a bit of rain yesterday morning and the weather is around 70 degrees and cloudy. He’ll get his second DD on the 30th and we’ll follow up with a DD of Ivermectin 2 weeks later just to be safe! Our local feed store will be having generic Ivermectin tomorrow for $3.99 per dose.

heidi and Kiger Caliente

#622

Weight estimation…

[QUOTE=Simkie;3527402]
I would use the “New Model 1” formula from this page: http://ojas.ucok.edu/02/papers/hapgood02.htm to accurately estimate weight and then treat with a double dose based on that.[/QUOTE]

Simkie, do you know what the bottom number means? The “278”…

Hapgood, et al ‘New Method 1’ (2001- Patent Pending)

Weight (lbs.) = ‘Girth 1’ (ins.)1.64 x Height (ins.).95 x ‘Length 1’ (ins.).40

278

#623

You divide the total of the top by 278 :slight_smile:

#624

Anybody want to help me post a picture?

[QUOTE=WeDoItAll;3523958]
The only other issue is that beginning yesterday, Hannah, the TB with the leg issues, her one leg is quite swollen again. Not unsound, not quite a stovepipe, but definitely swollen. Related?[/QUOTE]

You guys won’t believe this… this mare, yesterday (4 days since first dd of equimax) had an almost egg shaped oval on the outside of her right lower rear leg, about three fingers above the fetlock. Leg still swollen, still sound.

TODAY … oval has a hole in it and there is a white something or another erupting out of it. Not a small something or another … probably 1/3" in diameter. Some very minor bleeding resulting from eruption. Looks very much like an alien worm poking out of the flesh. It is out about 1/2" and still partially out after hours. Every once in a while we can see it kind of move. EEEWWW! Oh and I had someone else look at it, it is not like a warbel (or whatever bot fly larvae stuff is).

I have no idea what to do … cold hose, soak it, poultice, epsom salt soak, ichthammol, ???

#625

ewww ewww , where is the vomiting emoticon… ewwwwww…:eek:

Call your vet and ask their advice. -

I would think a poultice to help draw it out, but on the other hand, I don’t know if you want to kill it half in and half out either. ewwwwww…
Did you google habronema? http://www.ecmagazine.net/ecSummer06/ecsumwebphotos/summersore8525.jpg

Tweezers?
Epsom salts, ichtamol, even granulated sugar mixed with iodine into a paste are handy drawing agents.

#626

Let’s see if I can get this link to work for a photo…

http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=246079742/PictureID=5826642032/a=7157757_7157757/t_=7157757

#627

it works. but there’s quite a bit of blood so it’s hard to tell what’s going on.

#628

Ok… I’m going to do this for a few of mine.

BUT… seeing as how I’ve got, like, 6 or 7 I need (or would like) to treat… and the dd of equimax by itself is WAY MORE MONEY THAN I CAN SPEND!!!

How’s about dd w/ivermectin the first time and then ivermectin/equimax the second time?

OR… could I just dd w/ivermectin both times?

OR… what if I did a “proper” dosing w/ivermectin once a week for 3 (4?) weeks?

All but one of mine just has vauge symptoms… tail rubbing, a bit of eye drip occasionally, and some rain rot and that bug ‘alergy’ condition during the summer only. ONE (he’s 18) has lots of skin problems of various types. He’s unthrifty, drags his feet, and is generally just shy of being ‘right’. My plan is to dose him with the ivermectin/equimax both times.

But… how 'bout the others? Are those options listed above doable for them? sylvia

PS… what does this do to a horse you suspect has a touch of ulcer symptoms?

#629

OK, so I did the DD equimax a week ago. I haven’t noticed anything with the big guy, but the little guy had an incredible itch attack today!

We were grooming him preparing for a ride and he started rubbing up against the walls, then laid down and rolled twice in his stall.

Two hard bumps are still there, no change, but this is definitely the itchiest I’ve ever seen him (and he’s usually pretty itchy).

#630

I DD’d mine with Equimax four weeks ago, and again yesterday. He had bumps on his neck and shoulders, very dry skin, and was very itchy. After the first dose, he itched a lot on day 2, then a few bumps opened up, and he was better, but not completely resolved. So I gave him the 2d DD.

Today, I’ve been currying him with a rubber curry which he loves, plus spraying him with my own mix of olive oil and warm water. Some of the bumps have a whitish-tan sliver come out of them. Almost like a tiny spinter. Anyone else seen that?

I am quite convinced that this treatment is helping him, and I will report back in a few days. I do realize that the weather is cooling off so the improvement could also be coincident with that.

#631

I’ve used this on me!

Very funny in a way. I am taking that medication. I don’t do well with steroids. I got this and it works great on my itching and does not have have side effects that I’ve noticed.

Here at my farm in MI there seems to be a breakout of a mite. I’m not sure what kind but, did send samples of hay to MSU…still waiting on results.

not sure how the mite came but, maybe on the last batch of hay or we did do a big excavation project so perhaps we dug someting up?!?!

It leaves big itchy welts on the poeple who work here and on some of the horses but, only in 1 barn. It’s odd. The hay guy had no problem so I’m really not sure. All my supplies come from dealers that do many farms and no one else has had a problem. I think it’s a straw itch mite. It seems to be getting better. I did worm my horses with Equimax and will repeat. My vet does not feel DD is safe with this drug at the same time.

Does anyone know if this drug tests with USEF? It does make people sleepy. I could check the drug list :slight_smile:

#632

“My vet does not feel DD is safe with this drug at the same time”

You might want to show him this thread, so he/she can be disabused of this notion. Perhaps some of the documented research on NTW’s would help him, too.

This stuff has been around for a long, long time.

#633

Oh dear. I am 100% sure that is related to all this. I would treat it as a foreign (!!) object and pull it out. Oh dear. I might be sure to have a friend with me, so we could gross out together. I would definately not plan a lunch date afterwards.

#634

It helps the ulcer symptoms :smiley: in fact, Mapleshade and I were just talking today about how I never have ulcer issues w/my horses. I don’t treat them for them… I sure do deworm alot. Now granted this is a pretty idyllic place if your a horse so who knows.

Definately do the one who has issues w/DD Equimax and then follow up with a few double Ivermectins. You can slowly rotate thru your herd w/a DD Equimax as time goes on, try to do one a month. In the meantime, do the double Ivermectins.

In the long run it will save you money :slight_smile: Feed and ulcer meds and skin treatments are not cheap… I don’t even OWN a bottle of MTG :lol:

#635

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.2003.64.1221?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ajvr

Procedure—Mares were randomly allocated into treatment (n = 20) and control (20) groups and administered a placebo or 3 times the therapeutic dosage of ivermectin (0.6 mg/kg) and praziquantel (4.5 mg/kg) at 14-day intervals until parturition. Physical examinations were performed on mares and their foals after parturition (on postpartum days 30, 60, and 90) to identify any drug-related effects. As an aid in assessing general health, hematologic and serum biochemical analyses were performed monthly on the mares.
Results—In blood constituents, minor alterations that were not biologically important were observed. Reproductive performance was not affected by the unusual treatment duration or high dosage, although the drugs were administered during a crucial period of equine embryonic development (30 to 60 days). Neither adverse effects on mares nor abortions occurred. Follow-up evaluations of the foals for a 3- month period did not detect any abnormalities.

#636

??

I’m curious, not trying to be rude. Eq. Trainer and JB who are you? vets? BM’s? etc…

I will question my vet further on her reasons why DD is not safe at the same time. She is a younger vet (mid 30’s). I have others vets I use as well of various ages and back rounds. I will see what they say. I own my business and do have quite a bit of knowledge in horse care but, am not comfortable going against a vet with certain things…however if other vets are OK then I’ll feel better.

#637

Just an Ammy owner who spends a lot of time researching and trying “health” stuff :slight_smile:

I will question my vet further on her reasons why DD is not safe at the same time.

I would be interested in knowing her reasons, since there are several studies, not just the one above, that show that ivermectin and praziquantel have a fairly significantly higher safety margin than a simple double dose. IIRC, ivermectin alone has a 10x safety margin.

Here’s something interesting too, showing the very short half-life and total duration of praziquantel - not very long at all. From www.vmd.gov.uk/espcsite/documents/129919.doc

After administration of the recommended dosage to horses, the ivermectin plasma peak was reached within 24 hours. The ivermectin concentration was still over 2 ng/ml 14 days after administration. The elimination half-life of ivermectin was 90 h. With regard to praziquantel, the plasma peak was reached within 1 hour. The praziquantel was rapidly eliminated and was not detected after 8 h post treatment. The elimination half-life of praziquantel was 40 min.

From the same page

Horses carrying heavy infection of Onchocerca microfilariae have experienced such reactions as swelling and itching after treatment. It is assumed that these reactions are the result of the destruction of large numbers of microfilariae.

From another document www.vmd.gov.uk/espcsite/Documents/124871.DOC

No undesirable effects related to treatment were observed in 2 month old horses treated with FUREXEL® COMBI, oral pasteat up to three times the recommended dose and in adult horses treated at ten times the recommended dose.

where Furexel Combi (a UK product I think) is as follows:

Each syringe contains 7.74 g of paste and delivers:

2.1 Active Substance

Ivermectin 0.120 g (15.5 mg/g)
Praziquantel 0.600 g (77.5 mg/g)

#638

I’m curious as to why praziquantel enters into the equation at all, as it is used to treat infestations of cestodes and trematodes, and Onchocerca spp. are nematodes.

#639

Who am I? Does it matter? You should do your own research and educate yourself as I have done, IMO. It is impossible to expect a vet to keep up on everything, they have so much else to do. I hope someday they get more room to specialize, it does seem like that is coming.

My vet really appreciates it when I take the time to print out studies and give them to her. We just did this with a horse with a blocked salivery gland… it was her idea… she knows I will stay up all night digging whereas she cannot. I emailed her everything I found and she reviewed it and we made a plan.

I would expect her to explain to me why she had an issue with the safety of a drug that has been tested and found to be safe at much higher levels than 2x. My guess is, tho’, that she would not have said don’t do it… she would have said, show me your data, because I don’t know.

Lastly, nothing on this thread is a directive or order for anyone to do anything. If you are not comfortable with it, don’t do it. It’s really that simple. :slight_smile:

#640

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;3532259]
I’m curious as to why praziquantel enters into the equation at all, as it is used to treat infestations of cestodes and trematodes, and Onchocerca spp. are nematodes.[/QUOTE]

I have actually been asked this question several times…does anyone have an answer?

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse