something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

4th (?) update

[QUOTE=HandsomeBayFarm;3519943]
Third DD of EM done on the old guy, Gam. His 2nd DD of EM was at ten days after 1st because he was showing sign of distress. The 3rd dose was exactly at 14 days (today). Saturday he was restless and scratching bad…

The other beasties at the barn all got DD of EM at 14 days after 1st DD of Ivermectrin.

Charlie - no itchies - just mystery lameness.
Toby - no itches - big, bloaty belly ( no matter what )
Dakota - no itches - bad, gooey eyes. However, about 7 days after 1st DD of Ivermectrin, his chest did appear lumpy…?!
Marshall - no itches, or anything else for that matter.

Will report back if anything changes. Probably gonna keep hittin the old man as long as he is itching…probably gonna be with Ivermectrin next.[/QUOTE]

Gam (the 26yr old) is back to scratching. Not as horible but any thing that drives him to scratch drives him to loose weight…which has been a rollacoaster. Gonna hit him with 1 dose Ivermectrin today and one more again next Monday. I feel that he is harbouring those 14 yr old critters. (YUCK!)

As for the other guys:
Charlie: Still lame…:frowning:
Toby: No more belly! Wow. Several people have commented on how much better he looks. Will probably keep him on a continual Ivermectrin dosing for a bit.
Dakota: lumps from chest came and went. Eyes somewhat better. Vet coming next Monday to check eyes anyway.
Marshall - no change. Just fine.

Thank you, so my guesstimate of 1800lbs might be close if not too little, in which case his DD should have been correct :(. Pffffffff, I wished I could pop him on the scales somewhere.

Fancy That thanks for the pictures, gives me another idea.
I wonder if there’s a picture library somewhere with horse & bodytype and weights, would be interesting to compare.
I do intend to check out Simkie’s models. Couldn’t get them to stand still (was by myself) without freaking out about my retractable roll measure to take lenght. Will be interesting to see what these result too.

Haha, well I’m quite tall-ish 5’8" and ride with looooooooong stirrups (too long according to my trainer ;)).
Especially the grey is very narrow built so that makes it easier to drop your legs longer. His saddle is a narrow/medium with 54" girth and the brown horse has a wide admittedly with 56" girth. Dressage girth we do with 34" as there isn’t much larger out there.
Both have 87" blankets (weatherbeeta’s 84" might do at times ;)).

You need one of these: http://www.createforless.com/Dritz+Tape+Measure+Fashion+Color+60/pid13338.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse :slight_smile:

120" dressmaker’s tape measure

Umm… no. Try this one…
http://www.createforless.com/Collins+Tape+Measure+120+Inch/pid7475.aspx?SI=b4a0ea13-dab1-4701-8377-c2cfa89a5cd1

The 60" tapes are not long enough unless you have a mini!!
The 120" tapes work MUCH MUCH better. : )

:lol: Simkie very right and that for only $1.99, what am I waiting for.
No kidding, this is indeed what I need and don’t have at present.

Gabz, but it’s more expensive $2.29! might have to think about that twice :D.
-only joking of course-

Yeah it may only be $2.29 but the S&H will KILL you . LOL… :rolleyes:

I discovered this length was SO much easier for measuring for BLANKETs. I had one hanging in the tack room at a boarding barn until someone decided they needed it more than to share it. The next one got locked out of sight. what a shame.

Gabz Update 3 Geldings

gabz: first round of “double dose” on 23 August 2008

21 yo QH-Bubba. No noticeable signs of itchiness. Has fly sheet. Cribber since age 14. Used 1 E’max & 1 Ivermectin. That day his cribbing dropped about 40%. No noticeable change in the week following. (I don’t expect he has any major infestation.)

2 weeks later: Single dose of Equimax. He was not symptomatic at the beginning. Again, his cribbing decreased significantly on the day of dosing.
2+ weeks later. Bubba has had about 10 - 15 small “pimples” of serum pop up on his body. A few on his shoulder and neck. Several on his midline.

6 yo MFT-Bentley. Came from NASTY nasty farm. Questionable deworming background until November 2007 when I bought him. B&W color. had nasty small lumps on his chest and between front legs. Rubbing/scratching tail despite every 6 week deworming protocol. No crusties on midline. Used 1 E’max & 1 Ivermectin. Have noticed that tail isn’t being rubbed. Little bumps on chest gone. Will do a double E’max at 2 week mark.

2 week mark: DD Equimax. Between the first treatment and this one, his “scars” (at least that’s what I thought he had) on his chest reappeared. But I now realize they must be a sub-derma parasite and most likely the NTWs. After this DD of Equimax, he had some raised bumps and itchiness, which seem to resolve in a few days. Tail is not looking as scrufty.
1 week later: Single dose of ivermectin. No significant changes in lumps, bumps, or anything else.

10 yo Mtn Pleasure Horse-Amber Bock. Rescue from truck headed to Shipsy in Dec 07. poor haircoat, rat’s nest in tail. crusties on midline. Lumps at umbilical area and just in front of sheath. Used 1 E’max & 1 Ivermectin. Have noticed that tail isn’t being rubbed. Crusties … still there … but might be a little smaller. Will do a double E’max at 2 week mark and keep supplies on hand for additional 2 week dosing. This horse had SEVERE trust issues. Does not like to be touched. Flings head to avoid ear touching. Since Dec I have gained his trust… had a hard time trimming hind feet, etc., due to trust. This will be my “hard core” case to watch.

2 week mark: DD Equimax. Some small oval areas have appeared on his sides and hip. One nearly quarter-sized, the other dime-sized. dry scabby sort of spots. His midline is getting softer but still has crusties. He LOVES it when I brush or scratch him there. Eye discharge a little less. He wears a fly mask on days almost everyday. Top of tail still a little ratty. The lumps in his umbilical area appear to be getting smaller.
1 week later: Single dose of ivermectin. No significant changes. During the past few weeks of deworming, he had 1 VERY good day about being touched, but is again very sensitive.

I think of note with these horses is that I have used Quest and Quest+ on them in the 10 months prior to this. So I think that I may have reduced the numbers in previous dewormings; therefore, none of my 3 horses had super high NTW loads but I’m sure that 2 of them did have them in large numbers. None of my 3 ever did the intense scratching that so many others have written about.
Another NOTE: I measured the horses and discovered that I had underestimated their weights by at least 100 pounds. Consequently they were not receiving high-enough levels of some dewormer pastes in the past.

Next on the rotation schedule is Quest for all.

Don’t assume

It’s not about my doing research it’s about me going against a professional in a field that I am not in. If I were to hurt a clients horse doing something my vet says is not safe then that would be me a bad trainer. Yes, I do make myself aware of happenings in the horse world however, I am not going to do something just because of board of people think it’s so great. I am first going to ask a professional. In the same manner I would hope someone would not give themselves drugs without seeking a out a doctor. It’s your choice to “self medicate” and if you are posting on a public forum as am I then I thinks if fair where you base of knowledge comes from.

I work closely with many vets including those of large hospitals like Rood so I am not naive to horse care simply cautious.

As for not “having to do something”. I know I don’t have to do anything however since again since you seem so knowledgeable I want to ask. I’m sure others reading this are curious too and just don’t want to speak up.

What is a NTW?

The thing this whole thread is about :wink: Neck Threadworm

Did you get a chance to ask your vet why she feels a dd of Equimax is not safe? I’m honestly curious as to her answer :slight_smile:

I am on Hydro. wanted to know if that is USEF allowed but, can check myself. Not asking anything about dewomers.

EXACTLY!!

duh! I could not for the life of me think of what that stood for. I think it was the capital letters throwing me off :winkgrin:

I have not had a chance to ask the vet. Her response when I did a last was that type of wormer is not meant to be doubled. Stongid and Panacur are. We were dealing with a founder horse so I left it at that and went back to the horse she was here for. I will ask her next time we talk.

I will add that I did do 1 on each of my 13 horses here. I have not noticed anything different on any of them. Many of them will have occasional bug bites, itchy tails (mostlty the girls), etc… but, no constant problems that don’t go away on their own. So, either I killed nothing, have no major infestations or strange horses. Either way, they are healthy and that is what matters.

SSFLandon, I think you missed my point entirely. My point was that perhaps your vet is not aware of NWT’s. Apparently a lot of them are not. If your vet is not then pointing them towards the research that has been done on treating them would be helpful, not just for your horses, but for the other horses your vet oversees care for.

I don’t think anyone should blindly administer any sort of drug without doing the research on it, and that includes you and your vet. I don’t. FWIW, extensive deworming is part of my successful rehabilitation program. But just because I do it and it works for me does not mean anyone should just do it.

I am sorry if my answer pissed you off but even rephrased, it remains the same. I am someone who has done a lot of research on parasites in horses. But even if I were the Supreme Authority on parasites, it wouldn’t matter… it’s still up to each individual person to determine what they should or should not do. I’;m not throwing down the gauntlet, I mean it. And it doesn’t bother me to hear anyone say they aren’t going to do it. I have no attachment to if someone does something the way I do it, or not. That is an immaturity I thankfully grew out of in my late 20’s. Now I share the info, smile and move along.

I have another symptom (I think), my guy has this crusty patch on his RF elbow. I’d say about 2 inches wide, 1/2 inch tall.
Could NTWs cause that, or is that another fungus-y type thing? He’s had it as long as I’ve owned him (4 years yesterday:D) and it doesn’t really go away in the winter, but definitely more noticeable in the summer.
I really don’t know what to do…

Oh dear, you have jiggled a memory from a talk with an Australian vet some years ago -

He was looking at a horse for something else entirely, and the horse had these crusy, scurfy looking elbows. He told me to “get that cleaned up, because those were the same worms that caused uveitis”.

I had totally forgotten about that until right now. I thought he was craaaaaaaazyyyyyyy…

[QUOTE=LMH;3533738]
I have no idea. I should think it would be seasonal…spring through fall when symptoms are present?[/QUOTE]

Just looked it up on the web… it said “Adult worms are not affected by deworming agents and therefore serve as a reservoir for recurring infection. To keep the skin free of disease, ivermectin must be repeated at 4-month intervals.”

I know the whole adult worm thing has been said, but I don’t remember anyone saying to deworm for them every four months…

[QUOTE=EqTrainer;3535551]
Oh dear, you have jiggled a memory from a talk with an Australian vet some years ago -

He was looking at a horse for something else entirely, and the horse had these crusy, scurfy looking elbows. He told me to “get that cleaned up, because those were the same worms that caused uveitis”.

I had totally forgotten about that until right now. I thought he was craaaaaaaazyyyyyyy…[/QUOTE]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!:eek::eek::eek:
I will take pictures of it tomorrow, so you can have a look!

uh-oh, my appy gelding with uveitis had a crusty elbow. maybe not “crusty” but more like thick dandruff? Definitely not scab-like. i could scrub it off, but it would reappear. i assumed it was from his shoe rubbing when he lay down, but who knows?

jan