something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

[gabz]

Here is the Info To show Doubtful Vets. !!

From this site: http://www.drugs.com/vet/eqvalan-liquid.html

[B]

Information For Horse Owners[/B]

Owners should be advised of the potential that swelling and itching reactions may occur after treatment with EQVALAN Liquid in horses carrying heavy infections of neck threadworm microfilariae, Onchocerca sp. These reactions are most likely the result of microfilariae dying in large numbers. Symptomatic treatment may be advisable.
Healing of summer sores involving extensive tissue changes may require other therapy in conjunction with EQVALAN Liquid. Reinfection, and measures for its prevention, should also be considered.
Owners should be advised to consult their veterinarian if these conditions do not improve.

Equalvan is Ivemectin in liquid form. no different than Ivermectin paste. See this description of Ivermectin Paste.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/ivermectin-paste-1-87.html

Information For Horse Owners
Swelling and itching reactions after treatment with Ivermectin Paste 1.87% (ivermectin) have occurred in horses carrying heavy infections of neck threadworm (Onchocerca sp. microfilariae). These reactions were most likely the result of microfilariae dying in large numbers. Symptomatic treatment may be advisable. Consult your veterinarian should any such reactions occur. Healing of summer sores involving extensive tissue changes may require other appropriate therapy in conjunction with treatment with Ivermectin Paste 1.87% (ivermectin). Reinfection, and measures for its prevention, should also be considered. Consult your veterinarian if the condition does not improve.

[gabz]

@Maple Shade;3554207

Could somone re post the dosing info for liquid Ivermectin? I’m having trouble finding it. Am I correct in remembering that you cannot feed the pour on Ivermectin that’s marketed for cattle? TIA

Pour On type goes on the OUTSIDE of cattle.

[Maple_Shade]

Gabz- water came out my nose when I read your response! :lol:
I have a kid that works for me that has one of my TBs. Her parents insist that she can use the pour on cattle Ivermec on her TB. I told them the same thing you wrote here and they looked at me like I was a princess alien from outer space! :winkgrin:
Definitely thanks for the giggle. And REALLY thanks for the links!

[JB]

@gabz;3556276

(Gee, I always thought “precipitate” was when it rained or snowed. Who knew?)

Precipitation

Interesting about the precipitate (solids coming out of suspension). I’ve never used liquid ivermec. I need to read up on that, as surely it’s lots cheaper than paste, and can be fed instead of stuffed:lol:

[gabz]

(Gee, I always thought “precipitate” was when it rained or snowed. Who knew?)

@JB;3557475

Precipitation :lol:

(I checked in Websters and there’s even more definitions for precipitate besides the chemical and rain/snow ones)

:winkgrin::lol: Obviously, you’ve not dealt with Fun with International English translation… oh, there’s one now!! translate > translation. Or… one I see frequently from my European colleagues edit > edition and then one from India… update > updation. :eek:

Oh what fun… I always love it when I get an email asking me to “do the needful” … it always causes a little brain wrinkle to Stephen King’s book “Needful Things” …
ackkkk… :no:

[system]

[QUOTE=gabz;3556189]
Robie - You should be able to use a SINGLE, full dose of Ivermectin one week after the last DD. If he is still having lumps and bumps appear, do ANOTHER single Ivermectin dose one week later. You can double dose the Ivermectin at any time too, if you think it will help him faster.

You can give him some anti-histamine (Bendadryl) to ease his itching. Contact your vet for dosing.

So far as the welt that is moving. One of my horses had those too. Except I didn’t realize what it was. I thought they were scars!!! UGH… they are/were about 4 inches long. His were on his chest. Another horse of mine had some small greyish spots on him after the second DD. They disappeared in the following weeks. Then, he had a small oval area appear on the inside of one front leg… within a few days, that “scab” fell away.

Be sure you are giving the correct amount of Ivermectin. I, along with some others, realized we were underdosing.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much !! Welt is better today. His were also about 4 inches long. I’ll get in touch with my vet re the Benadryl…good idea…and worm him again w/Ivermectin. If this treatment does the trick I will be dancing on the ceiling with delight as I have tried everything I can to relieve this horse.

[system]

I just thought I’d post an update on our experience with all this.
My Arabian, Aslan, has had problems with summer belly sores for about 3 years. Last year I used a belly fly sheet which helped him heal up totally. He wore the sheet 24/7. This year I started him on garlic and spirulina. The problem seemed much less and he only wore the sheet for a few weeks. I also began to deworm more often and used Ivermectin in the middle of the summer. Unfortunately he seemed to have more problems on the withers and neck this summer. My mini horses have no belly or neck problems. However, they are on a daily feed thru dewormer (Strongid C). When I heard about the NTWs I decided to try the dewormer dosing. We started with 1.5 dose of Ivermectin and it seemed to help the neck areas and he was calmer. Two weeks later we did 1.5 dose of Equimax. I hesitated to do a full double dose since a single dose of Equimax is already twice as much chemical as Zimecterin Gold which is what we used in the past. After two weeks of that his whole coat was smooth and clear and even the belly was nearly healed. At the same time, we had some cooler temps. so the fly situation is also drastically improved so I can’t tell how much is the dewormer and how much is the fly population. I’m considering doing a double dose of Ivermectin one more time since it is now two weeks after the Equimax.
I also did a 1.5 dose of Equimax on the minis since they were due for a tapeworm treatment. I’m not sure if my horse has NTWs or allergies or both. The worming seems to help, though.

[JB]

Ok, outing myself here I did try the DD. My WB gelding really didn’t have issues, other than tail rubbing in the Spring - not since then. My TB mare seems to regularly try to rub on her stall corners when she’s in for a few hours. So I thouht, what the heck.

I didn’t see any changes.

Except…

My WB gelding has this spot low on his left side. I cannot swear it was or wasn’t there before the first DD (which was probably a month ago, so at least 2 weeks since the 2nd DD, I didn’t do anything beyond that). At first I thought it was just a loss of hair due to one nasty fly bite. But it isn’t getting better. And it’s not just 1 lump, it’s “1” lump that’s really several smaller lumps. And he does NOT like me messing with it. It’s not in any area that is affected by riding - way behind my heel, closer to the flank, low where the belly starts to curve under. It’s just not changing. I’ve seen sarcoids and I highly doubt this is one, but I can’t rule that out.

Thoughts?

[gabz]

Is it grayish and teeny bumpies almost like goosebumps? Yup. my yellow horse had a few places like that. he didn’t like me touching them either.

Put some ichthamol on it.

[JB]

gabz, yes!! What IS it? It is little creepy crawlies that need to be outed with Equimax?

[gabz]

@JB;3558489

gabz, yes!! What IS it? It is little creepy crawlies that need to be outed with Equimax?

I think it is dead creepy crawlies - they come to the surface when they die. Remember - the microfilarae are those teeny teeny teeny little things - remember the picture of the one coming OUT the black flie’s antenna?
Think of how small a black fly is. Then think about how small the antenna is, then think of that little icky thing.

blech blech blech… all over the keyboard.

The “welts” I think are migrating adult onchocerca. Since the ones on my B&W horse come and go… The adult females can grow to 30 cm which is nearly 1 foot!!!

Makes me want to give my horses MORE DEWORMER… (they are due in a couple of days. LOL)

[Kerrysmom818]

Update on my mare

Did second DD on 9/16 - neck has now cleared up beautifully - no more lumps or bumps after a rash of them immediately following second DD. However, the side of her face is not improving. Still round little hairless areas esp on the left cheek . . . any suggestions? I’ve been putting Lucky Braids Itch Salve on it for a few days . . .

[JB]

@gabz;3558534

I think it is dead creepy crawlies - they come to the surface when they die.

That’s what I was afraid of. Rio has NEVER had anything like this. Bald spots, sure, but never “goosebumpy” (great description, fits perfectly) and never bothersome.

Remember - the microfilarae are those teeny teeny teeny little things - remember the picture of the one coming OUT the black flie’s antenna?
Think of how small a black fly is. Then think about how small the antenna is, then think of that little icky thing.

blech blech blech… all over the keyboard.

Yes, I was the one who posted that pictures link hurls

The “welts” I think are migrating adult onchocerca. Since the ones on my B&W horse come and go… The adult females can grow to 30 cm which is nearly 1 foot!!!

Yeah, if I ever saw something 12" long coming out my horses that wasn’t a tail hair that got sucked up their butt, I think I’d run screaming.

[gabz]

But yeah… if those things are 12 inches long… how big around are they?

ANd THOSE are the nasty things that make those big “knots” in the horse’s neck!! ??? ew ew ew…

Tiger Horse… maybe begin 1 dose of Ivermectin 1 week after the last DD Equimax. And maybe use something other than the Lucky Braids salve. It may not have enough ummph to help your horse at this stage. Ichthamol is about $8 - $12 a tub. Or maybe some people aloe-vera gel.

[system]

I thought I’d post about our experience with this stuff after 1 month.

My horse, Aslan, has had bad belly sores for the last three years. Last year he wore a belly fly sheet 24/7 and he healed up completely. This spring I started him on garlic and spirulina and it seemed to be less troublesome. He only needed to wear the sheet for a few weeks, but this year his neck and withers had lots of problems. I did begin to deworm him more frequently this summer and happened to use Ivermectin in July. My two minis have had no problems. They are on a daily feed thru dewormer (StrongidC). When I learned about NTWs I decided to try the double dosing stuff. We started with 1.5 dose of Ivermectin. That seemed to bring him some relief for the neck and his attitude was calmer. Two weeks later we did 1.5 dose of Equimax. That continued the improvement and the belly was healing. At the same time, the weather was cooling down and the flies were much less so it was hard to tell what was helping the most. BTW, I didn’t do a full double dose of Equimas because we previously used Zimecterin Gold and that contains on half the amount of chemical than Equimax so a double dose of Equimax would have been 4X our normal amount. I was a bit leary of that so we went for 1.5 dose. It is now 2 weeks after the Equimax and I’m considering doing another round of either Ivermectin or Equimax. I also did the two minis on 1.5 dose of Equimax since they were due for tapeworm treatment anyway.

In general, I still don’t know if my horse has NTWs or allergies or both.
I’m leaning toward both at this point. I’m also wondering if putting him on a daily dewormer would help.
What do you all think?

[Peggy]

[QUOTE=gabz;3556276]

(Gee, I always thought “precipitate” was when it rained or snowed. Who knew?)[/QUOTE]

As we say in chemistry, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate.

Precipitation is the process. Precipitate is the verb and the noun.“The precipitate will precipitate by the process of precipitation.”

[JB]

@pyrgirl;3558717

BTW, I didn’t do a full double dose of Equimas because we previously used Zimecterin Gold and that contains on half the amount of chemical than Equimax so a double dose of Equimax would have been 4X our normal amount.

Nope It’s not exactly the same amount on a dose for dose basis, but a DD of Equimax is not 4x a 1.5 dose of ZG.

[system]

[QUOTE=JB;3558847]
Nope It’s not exactly the same amount on a dose for dose basis, but a DD of Equimax is not 4x a 1.5 dose of ZG.[/QUOTE]

No – a single dose of Equimax is twice the amount of a single dose of Zimecterin Gold. So we went for a 1.5 dose of Equimax. That was the equivalent of 3 times the Zimecterin Gold.

[JB]

How do you figure a single dose of Equimax is 2x a single dose of ZG?

[JB]

@pyrgirl;3558856

No – a single dose of Equimax is twice the amount of a single dose of Zimecterin Gold. So we went for a 1.5 dose of Equimax. That was the equivalent of 3 times the Zimecterin Gold.

Simkie was kind enough to do the calculation of this back on post 556 of this thread:

Zimectrin Gold: 1.55% ivermectin, 7.75% praz, 7.35 g total weight, treats 1250lbs

0.0155 x 7.35 g=0.113925 g/1250lbs=0.00009114 g/lb=91.14 microgram/lb
0.0775 x 7.35 g=0.569625 g/1250lbs=0.0004557 g/lb=455.7 microgram/lb

Equimax: 1.87% Ivermectin, 14.03% praz, 6.42 g total weight, treats 1320 lbs

0.0187 x 6.42 g=0.120054 g/1320 lbs=0.00009095 g/lb=90.95 microgram/lb
0.1403 x 6.42 g=0.900726 g/1320 lbs=0.00068237 g/lb=682.4 microgram/lb

ZG is 91.14mcg/lb ivermectin, E is 90.95
ZG is 455.7mcg/lb praziquantel, E is 682.4

Nowhere near 2x on a dosage basis.