Funny you should ask!
Had a long chat about this over the holidays. We discussed what the daily dewormer targeted and what praziquantel* targeted. And then I asked what was being done to address encysted small strongyles, flukes and threadworms. long pause
Serious reservations about double dosing were expressed, and a fecal has been scheduled.
*Apparently Equimax was being used, not just ivermectin.
Bumping…
This study is 8 pages long… and doesn’t copy well as my copy is a copy of a copy 
Bump
bump for bumps on horse’s back
I’ve been off the site for a bit and just saw this thread was still going. I am only here to say that I am glad some people are not just continuing to deworm their horses becauses the forums said so. I said long ago that this “protocol” is not necessarily the best idea and that people should speak to their vets first
I am sorry to hear of the horses who have had problems either do to the deworming and or of unknown reasons…
any chemical can be dangerous
I don’t understand how you can come to that conclusion? (that people are not just continuing to deworm their horses because the forums said so)
Some people feel uncomfortable about it. That’s perfectly fine - but when anyone asks for suggestions, recommendations, etc. and others give that info, it’s up to the person to decide - hopefully with a discussion with their vet - on how to proceed. sort of like Take it or Leave it.
As JB pointed out above
Where is there a fad of DD’ing for any ol’ reason? It’s not here. This thread has been entirely about DD’ing with Equimax (or ivermectin alone) for reasons thought to be due to adult onchocerca. That’s it. Not for rainrot, not for ascarids, not dd’ing with moxidectin (eep!!). Equimax/ivermectin, and neck threadworms.
'nuff said.
Someone posted about bumps on their horse’s back. As we’ve seen AND READ from research studies - serum pustules that appear, seem to be the dead/dying juvenile forms of onchocerca, aka Neck Thread Worms and microfilarae.
Huh? Again, who has advocated continuing to deworm the snot out of a horse just because there’s a fungus? People have gone out of their way to say “if you’ve done this 3, even 4 times, and still having problems, STOP, because it’s not a NTW issue”. But guess what, some people have HAD to get that 4th dose in before they really saw results.
Everyone who has chimed in here has said this isn’t necessarily the best idea and you SHOULD speak to your vet about it.
So, I don’t understand your comments at all 
deworming
First I must say that I probably will regret even posting this but here goes. I advocate deworning for rain rot and other fungus problems. I have studied this for the last ten years. No I have not had a lab but I am like others able to do clinical trials which I did do. I primarily did these for lameness problems but in the process found evidence that in fact what was thought to be fungus is most likely a parasite die off.
the parasites begin to die coming to the surface. as they do so coming out thru the hair folliculs. an abudance of them creates a scab like appearance. It has been noted by labs that a fungus grows under the scabby areas so it was beleived that a fungas was the cause. At some point more testing was done by some labs and then it was decided that there was a virus that was growing under the scabs and that must be what was causing the fungus. I maintain that the parasites die off presents the perfect enviroment for fungus and virus.
These parasites present different skin conditions for different stages of their larvae life. This can be proven by using the dewormers and noting the results.
I was a horse breeder. at the time that I did the testing I had 52 horses. I did different wormers and testing with different horses that primarily presented skin conditions. this was done over a ten year period. I can say without any dought that If I had not found a way to help these horses some would have definately died.
Most of you will find that your vets are very sceptical. I personally found that I did not like the answers that I was getting. allergies with expensive treatments was the main answer. there are millions of dollars every year spent on vet visits and treatments that only treat the symptoms not the problem. boy that sure is job security to treat the symptoms and not the problem.
One thing about this country. this is America. No one is twisting anyones arms to do anything to your horse. It is up to the owner to do what they believe to be right for them and their animals. If you want to take the advice of your vet and do nothing besides treating for symptoms thats up to the individual. On the other hand no one should tromple on those who are treating their own.
If you will look on the inserts of your equimax boxes in the indications for treatment it says for skin dermatitis it is the last one mentioned. for those that dont know what that is. this means skin disorders or conditions of the skin. Keep in mind that rain rot is a skin condition. It is also non specific.
This covers a broad spectrim of conditions. I am sure the makers of Equimax have done their home work.
just one more thing
keep in mind treatments sometimes do have undesiralbe results such as heart worm treatments for dogs. some do die from the treatments, but without them they would have perrished. Do we quit doing treatments because of this?
Many years ago I worked for a vet. I had a Great Dane given to me that had worms terribly I talked with the vet about the possibilitiy of the deworming killing him his statement was if you dont deworm what do you think will be the results. Of course it would be death his only chance was to deworm which we did and he thrived. Many do not. You cannot denounce those for taking definitive action. it is wrong. If you chose not to do it that is your business. I am so thankful to be an American where I am free to do this.
1000th post on this thread!
…sorry, had to do it. Now back to NTWs…
littleD, thank you, that was a fantastic post :yes:
I admit I had not seen the reference to “skin crud” on the Equimax box! Excellent to know - I know some people HAD “wormed the snot” out of a horse as an effort to help dermatitis issues.
I am going to quote myself here because I stand behind what I say. Some of you can now say that you have not tried to “force” your beliefs on people but, that is not true. I am in fact one of those people who you continued to browbeat about deworming. I posted in several different thread about my filly having allergies and asking people for their experiences and the same group of people would reply with the answer of “deworm” everytime despite me saying that my vet was positive it was not worm related…and sure enough with diet changes and the information from her allergy testing she is doing much better
I am not against deworming but, if horses are dying and people are skeptical and you are not a vet I would not tell everyone that all skin, lameness, hoof, hair loss, tail rubbing, and weight problems are from worms because they sometimes not. Some people are followers and will believe a group on here and try to self help their horses when they should call the vet. That is my point.
What you forgot to mention, in your personal situation, was that when asked WHY your vets didn’t agree with it, you had no answer, because apparently they didn’t give you one and you hadn’t had the time to ask more specifics.
You have also missed, or chosen to ignore, the many different posters who have had success with this program have surprised their vets with the success, because guess what - the vets had no idea that a DD Equimax could be useful! The point being - just because a vet feels something isn’t necessary - which is really a non-answer - does not mean it’s not helpful, nor does it mean it’s necessarily harmful, and can very well mean that they have no idea that protocol is out there and don’t want to admit they don’t know. Very big, important differences there.
I am not against deworming but, if horses are dying and people are skeptical and you are not a vet I would not tell everyone that all skin, lameness, hoof, hair loss, tail rubbing, and weight problems are from worms because they sometimes not.
Again, ONE horse on this thread died, coincidental to the use of the DD protocol, and that horse was already having some really weird shit going on, with quite a few folks feeling there was a whole 'nother ballgame going on with that horse. Guess what, horses die all the time because dewormers were NOT used.
Also, no one here is saying that all the things you mentioned are even nearly always caused by parasite loads. but I DO think that people are only now starting to fully realize the problems that even moderate loads CAN cause. MODERN scientific research is commenting that tapeworm infestation is likely the cause of more problems than have been suspected in the past.
Some people are followers and will believe a group on here and try to self help their horses when they should call the vet. That is my point.
Again, you missed, or have chosen to ignore, the MANY posters on this, and other similar threads, who say TALK TO YOUR VET. Nobody here has pointed a gun to anyone’s cyber head and said do it. MOST people have gone out of their way, many times, to say “talk to your vet about this.”
Hopefully you are going out of your way to say these same similar things on the myriad of training and other health care topics where advice, unsoliticed or not, is offered, for fear that the poster will blindly take the word of a bunch of anyonymous bb’ers
Please
Could someone PM their worming protocol?
Thanks,
Gina
It should also be considered that if/when a horses immune system is not working well, that they may have a harder time resisting parasite infestations. Then, a higher parasite load is going to perpetuate the issue. So perhaps when we deworm the snot out of an animal who has a skin issue, we are just enabling its immune system to work better by eliminating the parasites. In other words, something has to break the cycle!
[QUOTE=SSFLandon;3833932]
Some of you can now say that you have not tried to “force” your beliefs on people but, that is not true. I<snip>
the same group of people would reply with the answer of “deworm” everytime despite me saying that my vet was positive it was not worm related…and sure enough with diet changes and the information from her allergy testing she is doing much better
I am not against deworming but, if horses are dying and people are skeptical and you are not a vet I would not tell everyone that all skin, lameness, hoof, hair loss, tail rubbing, and weight problems are from worms because they sometimes not. Some people are followers and will believe a group on here and try to self help their horses when they should call the vet. That is my point.[/QUOTE]
dont worry SSFlandon - i am seeing the same thing you are seeing re: posts… i too had a thread about allergies/skin issues and i too got the posts about it couldnt be allergies and that i should double dose with wormer… (and no mention of seeking vet advice - just several people telling me that to DD and what could it hurt?)
Thanks, I’m glad someone sees my point and does not take experimentation of chemicals and animals into their own hands based on some radom people 
FYI, I had a horse in my barn die (put down) after Equimax. The vets can’t rule out that the chemical did not cross her blood barrier in her mouth somehow. It’s one of the new unknown issues that science has yet to totally uncover. She was a founder horse who was suffering from a foot abcess at the time of deworking. Shortly after she showed VERY odd neuro signs and had to be put down in short…could me epm, tumor, DEWORMER, stroke…who knows
I’m not going to tell you all everything I have seen in life I am however not going to just do something because you think I should. You can badger all you want and you will get followers…I am not one of them.
and you fail to reread all your posts all over this board where you do tell everyone to DEWORM
[QUOTE=JB;3831415]
littleD, thank you, that was a fantastic post :yes:
I admit I had not seen the reference to “skin crud” on the Equimax box! Excellent to know - I know some people HAD “wormed the snot” out of a horse as an effort to help dermatitis issues.[/QUOTE]
I went and looked at a box I have and was not able to find the reference to skin conditions. But I did see that the box lists onchocerca as one of the parasites it targets.
I DD’d two horses without incident; probably, however, after the O. cycle had run its course, if that was the cause of the skin condition they had.
I plan to keep a very close eye on this in the upcoming season, and to be very methodical about my record keeping. I suggest that others do the same, and perhaps some clear answers will emerge. There is also every reason to keep all vets in the loop–they are the ones whose reports will be heeded at professional seminars.
What did the vet’s necroscopy show? Bloodwork? Toxicology report?
Or was there no necroscopy?
And? Horses have died from moxidectin, used properly, proper dose, proper horse (ie not old or sick or too thin or too young). And yes, horses have died from the VERY occasional crossing of the ivermectin over the blood-brain barrier. Has nothing to do with Equimax, has nothing to do with DD’ing, it’s something that can and has happened, though rarely, with ivermectin.
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