Speak to me of Dutch Harness Horses

[Renae]

OP Dutch Harness Horses are usually very forward and very TROT. People who haven’t dealt with this can be intimidated by it.

And everyone else, no, that price is not outrageous for this breed. The Amish are regularly importing stallions from Europe and broodmares can and do sell for 5 figures at public auction. The Harness Horse keuring was by far the largest KWPN keuring in North America this year, even though many Dutch Harness Horse breeders aren’t even registering their stock with the KWPN-NA (the American Dutch Harness Horse Association is the alternate many are using).

[Renae]

Also look up the horse Foster RW who is with the trainer Erin Shea as an example of a young Dutch Harness Horse doing dressage. His dam, Etinkie, was dam to several successful show horses in Holland and a full sister to a Grand Prix dressage horse in Holland (Atuur). She also had a Half-Arabian foal who has competed nationally on the Arabian circuit in dressage and has been trained from the beginning by an amateur (Grace Kelly HN is her name, her owner does post here).

[cloudyandcallie]

I looked at the video, and OP, that horse looks pretty good. Get a PPE. I’d think that that horse is worth more than his price.

[Countrywood]

There’s a breed and there’s an individual horse. That individual horse, at least from video, has either a training problem, or has virtually no training. He’s handsome and moves well, very high headed even for a DHH. Unknown why he kept balking and spinning ( fast on his feet lol in that turn). Could be he’s barely been ridden, could be someone off camera waving a bag to make him look fancy, could be because he’s got a screw loose.

If you like him, go see him, learn his back story and his training etc. I’d have a pro work with that horse first 6 months and a western saddle put on him and ridden all over the place to accustom him to diff things.

[Countrywood]

I heard an honest comment from a BNT trainer, sorry forgot his name, but his quote was, " We select dressage prospects, we dont’ rescue them. It is true that dressage is good for every horse. It is also true that not every horse is good for dressage".

We are not all the horse whisperer who can take on a troubled horse and expect a Cinderalla story outcome…I learned that first hand btw.

[CDE_Driver]

Several posts have mentioned the Harness Horses being so “hot”.
I know quite a few in the combined driving world and they aren’t hot at all. Sensitive and forward thinking, yes. But not what I would describe as hot. The horses have been kind and tractable. Right now almost all the top combined driving horses are Harness Horses. You really don’t want a hot and flighty horse if you want to do well in the sport.

Look up Chester Weber on YouTube. They call him Mr. Dressage in the driving world. His team is primarily made up of Harness Horses.

That said…I have seen some very hot Harness Horse crosses. Most came out of Amish breeding programs. Standardbred and Morgan crosses. Not my cup of tea at all. Many seem to get the worst traits from both.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=CDE Driver;7884915]
That said…I have seen some very hot Harness Horse crosses. Most came out of Amish breeding programs. Standardbred and Morgan crosses. Not my cup of tea at all. Many seem to get the worst traits from both.[/QUOTE]

All of the DHH I know are Amish. ‘Good thinking’ aren’t the words the trainers I know use to describe them. Caveat being that these particular guys tend to not get the ones that are easy. Starting an untouched DHH at 3 or 4 or 5 is often a battle. Once they’re broke* they’re ok, but getting there often isn’t easy.

The guys who really enjoy driving a horse, as opposed to ones who are driving because they aren’t allowed a car, prefer hot horses & that is what they breed. A typey, up-front, hot horse will bring a higher price than a dull, kid safe, or dressage suitable model.

*Broke in this context is not dressage broke, just enough steering to follow a road, stop at a sign, stand & go when asked. No WTC or finesse. They know what they need to do their job, nothing extra.

[PonyTales]

Perhaps a new class/event for dressage shows “Dressage Driving Class”. I could actually see this being popular.I would go Fresian over this

[SportArab]

I remember when these guys were all the rage among the Arab folks. I just couldn’t see how they’d make good dressage horses. All the ones I saw tended to have big front end motion and hind ends dragging.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=SportArab;7885048]
I remember when these guys were all the rage among the Arab folks. I just couldn’t see how they’d make good dressage horses. All the ones I saw tended to have big front end motion and hind ends dragging.[/QUOTE]

I think Arab (saddleseat) trainers can do that to any horse, regardless of breeding.

[cloudyandcallie]

[QUOTE=CHT;7884444]
Paint the horse a solid chestnut and would you still want him?[/QUOTE]

Well I don’t like black horses, and my favorite all time horse was Callie who was bay with a tiny star, but smart and with perfect conformation, I’d say that the horse that OP likes moves well. But she needs to go look at him and get a PPE.

[MelanieC]

[QUOTE=SportArab;7885048]
I remember when these guys were all the rage among the Arab folks. I just couldn’t see how they’d make good dressage horses. All the ones I saw tended to have big front end motion and hind ends dragging.[/QUOTE]

Aren’t the DHH crosses bred specifically for half-Arab saddleseat?

[Halt_Near_X]

[QUOTE=MelanieC;7886314]
Aren’t the DHH crosses bred specifically for half-Arab saddleseat?[/QUOTE]

Mine was. He has a full sibling who does (or did) well at it, too. But Fin doesn’t have the gaits for it.

There are enough ads out there of Arab/DHH crosses aimed at Dressage that, even if they are all saddleseat rejects, people are seeing the potential for the cross as Dressage horses.

But I think it’s a lot like the National Show Horses–you have to pick the right individual horse, knowing it’s not bred specifically for Dressage. I’ve seen some crosses I wouldn’t touch with a 10-foot pole. And I’m sure there are people who wouldn’t touch Fin, either–but then, I didn’t buy him with visions of the upper levels dancing in my head.

[red_mares]

There a A LOT of DHH crosses that are not 1/2 Arab. Like CDE Driver posted, the Amish like DHH crossed with standardbreds, Hackney ponies, Saddlebreds, Morgans and occasionally Halflingers.

DHH X Hackney pony is a fairly popular cross in NE Indiana where it’s flat. That generally produces a nice large pony/small horse with enough bone to handle the road & enough trot to sell. DHHXASB gives them a better head & brain. DHHXStbd really can cover some ground, but their heads…wow/woof.

[ASB_Stars]

The is a fellow named Ben Graber in NE Indiana who has been breeding black ASBs for years. Then, he started importing DHHs and crossing those. The Amish breeders may, or may not, care if the stallion they purchase is approved. I was at a farm in KY that imports a bunch of DHHs, and breeds them as well. They have ASB crosses that are very high quality. I noticed a big common headed stud colt in a stall and was told that an Amish fellow had purchased him for breeding, and no, he was not approved. The show horse people breed for a head that doesn’t need to be hidden behind blinkers! :lol:

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;7886576]
The is a fellow named Ben Graber in NE Indiana who has been breeding black ASBs for years. Then, he started importing DHHs and crossing those. The Amish breeders may, or may not, care if the stallion they purchase is approved. I was at a farm in KY that imports a bunch of DHHs, and breeds them as well. They have ASB crosses that are very high quality. I noticed a big common headed stud colt in a stall and was told that an Amish fellow had purchased him for breeding, and no, he was not approved. The show horse people breed for a head that doesn’t need to be hidden behind blinkers! :lol:[/QUOTE]

I know Ben and many of the other Grabers fairly well. They are my BO’s wife’s family. My mare is by a black ASB he stood (She’s a bright red chestnut:lol:)

I took my trainer up there to go horse shopping. We were talking to Ben’s son- the show horse people may breed for a head that doesn’t need to be hidden behind blinkers, but Matt was not at all impressed by the weedy ASBs they were breeding in KY that don’t have any bone or trot. They picked up a bunch of mares some years ago that were all but useless. Graber, et.al. quickly figured out which bloodlines to leave at the sales. The local bred horses have some substance to them.

As far as I know, Ben has cut back on the horses quite a bit, but he (or Matt) is standing a nice black DHH. BO has a couple nice yearlings by him (ASBX and Hackney X).

[2tempe]

OP -I don’t know you from Adam, so no idea of your horse skills, etc. IMO the DHH is a lot of horse - maybe hot, maybe forward thinking, whatever. As above comments say, this one probably limited training, maybe a temperament problem. What would you think of doing with him?

This is not the kind of horse that is likely to be very competitive in dressage (since that’s where you’ve posted) He’s going to be a ton of work. It seems to me that for the same $3500 there could be some very nice OTTBs or other horses out there that would be more FUN, less of a risk.

[maybesmom]

Have you contacted any of the Dutch harness Horse breeders in the US? Several of them are listed on the KWPN-NA website, they participatee in the annual keurings and there are several approved stallions in this country. I wonder why you would want to use one of the Dutchharness horses for dressage when that is not really what they are bred for as opposed to going with a regular Dutch Warmblood.

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=maybesmom;7886792]
Have you contacted any of the Dutch harness Horse breeders in the US? Several of them are listed on the KWPN-NA website, they participatee in the annual keurings and there are several approved stallions in this country. I wonder why you would want to use one of the Dutchharness horses for dressage when that is not really what they are bred for as opposed to going with a regular Dutch Warmblood.[/QUOTE]

I think that you missed the point- she saw this horse on a group for Amish horses, and thought he would both be a possibility as a dressage horse, as well as be one less on the road.

As for believing that only purpose bred horses do dressage worth a damn, I am not starting that discussion here.

[Renae]

I find it interesting how many people who have never ridden/driven a Dutch Harness Horse seem to have a strong opinion of them (the same happens with the other breeds I <3 the Saddlebred and Hackney Pony).

If you like a game, forward, big trotting it might be a horse you like. If you’ve never experienced such a thing I would say first go to a Saddlebred barn (a lower yourself b to riding saddle seat ) and give it a try. Then if you like that feel and dressage is the game you want to play have at it, who cares if the rail birds are getting their undies in a bunch because you’re not riding a purpose bred dressage horse. Tis a great thing about this world that we don’t all have to like the same thing!