[QUOTE=Countrywood;7884665]
I heard an honest comment from a BNT trainer, sorry forgot his name, but his quote was, " We select dressage prospects, we dont’ rescue them.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly the attitude that sentences a whole lot of perfectly nice horses to slaughter every day.
You can search my posts to know that I rescue horses directly out of the kill pen. This horse is not a rescue. He’s for sale. If you like him and you have the experience to handle a hot green horse like this then go ahead, but I wouldn’t purchase a horse like this and expect to do dressage on it without A LOT of retraining just to get him rideable, let alone showable and I’d expect an uphill battle with his conformation. I don’t have any problem with out of the box breeds. What matters is if this horse is a suitable horse for your needs and skills.
[QUOTE=2tempe;7886630]
This is not the kind of horse that is likely to be very competitive in dressage (since that’s where you’ve posted) He’s going to be a ton of work. It seems to me that for the same $3500 there could be some very nice OTTBs or other horses out there that would be more FUN, less of a risk.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know what part of the country you live in. I’m in the northeast and I would guess the majority of dressage riders and trainers wouldn’t touch a TB with a 10 foot pole. My daughter’s former trainer prefaces the word Thoroughbred with skanky. Her current trainer begged me not to “do that to her” when I suggested we look at a TB.
Currently she’s leasing an ASB/Belgian cross who is a dressage natural. I’m sure that many here would not have looked at her since she does have the rather high neck set of the ASB but this mare is amazing!
As for the horse in question, while I do hope and pray that he finds a soft place to land and doesn’t take that last horrific trip to a slaughterhouse, I am not going to buy him. Not because he isn’t worthy but simply because there are only so many horses that I can support. This horse does remind both my daughter and myself of her beloved DWB that we tragically lost last April. Levi, the DWB, was a dressage schoolmaster how had successfully competed through PSG before being imported to the U.S. When Levi was worked up over something he would do the whole high headed big trot thing.
He looks like a big, green (perhaps even unbroke?), forward, upheaded, snorty horse that would require some sustained attention from a strong and skilled rider/trainer to get him going in the right direction for dressage. If all of that is in your wheelhouse, than go for it!
There is nothing glaringly off about his conformation, and trailing hocks on a green, spun-up horse is certainly not a first (and that includes plenty of warmbloods), nor is it the end of the world. He looks like with the right guidance he might be pretty spectacular…you just have to decide if that is a challenge you are up too…?!
[QUOTE=85union;7887621]
This is exactly the attitude that sentences a whole lot of perfectly nice horses to slaughter every day.[/QUOTE]
The reason why horses are sent to slaughter every day is because of stupid breeders who breed irresponsibly.
Maybe if we stop buying from them, they’ll stop breeding…
My own horse is a rescue, or I prefer the word project horse. And I am the one who posted that quote and after spending a lot of time reflecting, imo it’s true ( for anyone who is serious about dressage, for the rest of us, get any horse we like or want to help etc, but If I were doing it over, and I wanted to progress in dressage, I would select a horse suitable for it. If that meant a rescue or project horse, I’d select that one as the best candidate for dressage at least temperament wise. This horse imo looks difficult but it could have been just an ignorant video and lack of training.
[QUOTE=85union;7887621]
This is exactly the attitude that sentences a whole lot of perfectly nice horses to slaughter every day.[/QUOTE]
I was going to let it go, but you seem hell bent on this horse going to slaughter.
You may not want this horse, which is perfectly fine since he doesn’t suit your needs, but I doubt that sentences him to slaughter.
The horse was purpose bred as a road horse. He has a significant value that is well above meat price. He may have quirks & holes, but most horses do. With a change in owner, they could be filled. It happens fairly often throughout the horse world.
I would put even money that he’s on Facebook under saddle(ish) to attract English women who want to save the poor horsey. The Amish are not stupid. While many are insulted by the fact the people will buy a horse from them at an inflated price simply to “save it”, they are willing to exploit that sentiment. How do I know this? I’ve had the conversation with them.
Don’t dare tell me that just because a 7 yro gelding is sitting for sale an Amish barn he’s going to be slaughtered. I’ve been around long enough to know that a horse like this would have to have several screws loose, and go through several trainers before someone gives up on him, mostly because he is a black horse with perfect chrome. Black horse are worth more than chestnuts. The right (Amish) person gets this horse and he’s $30K & darn impressive driving to church.
I’ve seen horses that made this one seem perfect, that Amish owners put several thousand in training in, because once the key was found the horse would be golden. Horses that could reasonably be slaughtered or put down for behavior issues, that they spent the money to fix.
I know many old road horses that are lounging in lush fields. I know old ponies that are teaching kids to drive just as old hunter ponies tote tykes over fences. My BO HATED his wife’s pony. That pony died in the field this past summer at 30 something. She hadn’t driven him in the last 5 years, but no way was he going anywhere, much to my BOs dismay.
My understanding of these horses is that, yes, they are offered for sale to bleeding heart women like me. However, I have also seen horses go to slaughter to teach bleeding hearts like me a lesson so that the next time the money will be coughed up.
Now I’m done.
[QUOTE=2tempe;7886630]
OP -I don’t know you from Adam, so no idea of your horse skills, etc.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for not immediately assuming I’m an idiot.
There is no reason if choosing to rescue a horse not to look for the one most suited to do the job you want.
I do have a rescue who crippled but is a great companion for my other horses when I take some away. She’s the type to comfort other horses yet not get too worked up if she’s the one left alone. In other words, she’s very suited for the job. She’s easy to handle, low-maintenance, and even my mom can walk her around and do what she wants with her.
I have a friend who has a rescued warmblood gelding. He is a stellar dressage horse. He was free and half starved to death and feral in a field when she got him. But he’s suited for dressage.
I have a friend with a saddlebred cross (NSH) mare she was given by a breeder who was going out of business. Not exactly a rescue since the breeder was careful where she placed animals and none were in danger for their lives. The mare shows all kinds of saddlebred qualities, but also have a lot of dressage ability. She also happens to be fun to go out on trail rides, beginner friendly, etc.
My point is, nothing wrong with having a type you like - but match that horse’s qualities to your goals. There are examples in most breeds who can make GP if that’s where you want to go - just harder to find in the breeds not specifically bred for it.
I was bobbing and weaving to not get into the rescue aspect of this, but here we go.
Is this horse a rescue? No. Is he headed into the pipeline for rescue. Yes.
To say that he was purpose bred for the road is a problematic statement for me. Steers are purposebred to be what’s for dinner, but there are those of us who will not eat them.
For the reasons which have been noted- very little training of any kind, and particularly under saddle, if this horse goes on the road, at the end of his useful life there he will still have no training under saddle, and very few people, if any, will want a horse with road miles and no education for the job that they need a horse for. He will be sent to a sale- because that is how the Amish do it. You use it, it wears out, or becomes unsuitable, and you dispose of it at a sale.
I bought horses off of the road for over 35 years- I bought my first one when I was 14. I used to have this wonderful Pollyanna attitude that perhaps, if a horse was special, they’d retire him, and keep him. I watched a family I did a huge amount of business with use a horse by Harlem Globetrotter for years. He was the wifes horse, and his front legs looked awful, from all of the miles. They owned him for 10 of his 14 years. He was turned out for awhile when he came up lame, to give him some time off. I went out one day, and he was gone. The owner told me that “he could use the $500 for the children” - he wasn’t going to keep a horse he could no longer use. I was in tears. It still bothers me.
The ASBs aren’t purpose bred for the road, but they might as well be. Huge numbers of them wind up in SE PA- the Nexxus to Hell for my breed. Most are broke to ride before they are dumped through a dealer, or at a sale. But because not enough people can see through the horse driving down the road, or being ridden in the bareback feet on the dashboard head by the horses rump Amish style, they are in the pipeline to pound out their time on the road, and be sent to a low end sale, and slaughter. Young or old doesn’t matter.
Each and every horse deserves a job doing what they can do well. Sometimes, that isn’t immediately apparent. I think that this horse could be a whole lot of fun in the dressage ring. And it sure beats the hell of out the alternatives.
[QUOTE=85union;7888794]
Thank you for not immediately assuming I’m an idiot.[/QUOTE]
You are welcome. Also I did not actually assume much of anything - thus asking what you were thinking of doing w/ the horse. Since one possibility was simply a project horse, or maybe a resale, not necessarily for dressage, I made the OTTB suggestion. I understand some don’t like them or other “off breeds” for dressage
but there are exceptions to every broad statement. I have one of those, and he is a TB who carried me all the way to PSG and was quite competitive in the process.
By the way, 2 Tempe, I LOVE TBs. I have 2 OTTBs. It’s a pet peeve of mine that the dressage peeps around here won’t even look at them.
[QUOTE=slp2;7881801]
Below is a link to me riding a 1/2 Dutch Harness (KWPN) and 1/2 Percheron. He is young and ridiculously tall (18 h) but is a really fun horse to ride. Very responsive for his size and also very forward for a horse that is 1/2 draft. When we first bought him, his canter was like a carthorse! However, he is learning to use his back a lot better and got an “8” on one of his canter circles in this test. He’s just doing training level, but has shown some potential to be a pretty cool horse as he moves up. He is not mine (well, not completely) he is owned by my husband and a friend. They are not trying to do any upper level stuff with him–just want to have fun. They are really enjoying him!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVh3jICkgCs[/QUOTE]
Yes, digging up this old thread. My new horse is a DEAD RINGER for the horse slp2 is riding in this video and exactly as described above.
It’s hopeful to me that my youngster is going to be really nice!
slp2 - if you happen to see this thread - was this guy “close behind” until he muscled up a bit? Mine tends to step on himself a bit, so he’s in boots or wraps whenever he’s working.
I have several DHH mares in my program. Rhett and Air Marshal are both Grand Prix and out of those mares. We have 4 other FEI horses coming along out of the DHH mares. The mares were carefully selected to have good canters that they reliable passed on and proper conformation. For awhile US buyers were just buying anything and there are mares in the US system with bad carriage, looong backs and no canters. You have to be smart and selective. Some of ours drive and they are all ridden in Dressage. We don’t find them too hot and like their power and work ethics. Here is a link to a Smilebox of some of them…
http://www.smilebox.com/playBlog/4e4449354f5441324e6a513d0d0a&blogview=true
Touchstone, I’m so glad you chimed in!
My new guy, Max, just turned five in June and has really only been under saddle since the beginning of the year. He’s a Belgian/DHH cross that was broke to drive initially. My goals are foxhunting and low level eventing (maybe Novice level).
His first few months under saddle were spent briefly in a ring then onto work as a whip’s mount for several months, with some flatwork training.
I can’t say enough about this young horse’s great brain. He’s been brought along very nicely - good manners, a respectable work ethic, smart, brave and keenly interested in everything.
I board next next to a large biodynamic farm with all sorts of animals on it. We trail ride over there quite a bit. Last week, we had to pass by pens of sheep and pigs and he didn’t bat an eye.
On on the other hand, he seems to have plenty of “go” to him and moves quite nicely off my leg. My previous mount was a high-octane TB so I was a tad concerned that this cross would be dull. So far, he’s the best of both worlds.
His canter isn’t great, but it’s steadily improving with each ride so I think he’ll get there. (I have another thread about improving it). I don’t think he’s long backed - certainly not compared to my last horse.
I’m trying to link to photobucket, but struggling with that.
http://s946.photobucket.com/user/Beth_Meves_Geiser/library/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads
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