you read the entire article yet your only comment is about drawreins?
and turnout.
[QUOTE=egontoast;4585385]
and turnout.[/QUOTE]
I guess your right you thing your right about everything. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Like I said DA zero turnout is a deal breaker for me.
I guess your right you thing your right about everything
You seem to be trying to communicate but perhaps need help.
Draw reins and turn out are immaterial compared to those brown boots the guys wear for schooling. Where can I get me some???
“Thehorseproblem” yuck…hate the brown boots. Brown boots happen to be a deal breaker for me. Is this a money thing??? Is it because black shows too much dirt? I knew I could find something to hate about that horse.
[QUOTE=Liz;4585434]
“Thehorseproblem” yuck…hate the brown boots. Brown boots happen to be a deal breaker for me. Is this a money thing??? Is it because black shows too much dirt?[/QUOTE]
I like the idea of brown boots, but you can really only wear them with tan or brown breeches, or a matching plaid, or black breeches only if you are wearing a brown top. I hate tan breeches, and only have black breeches for schooling, so I’m all about the black boots. But I admire their fashion courage- triple breasted shadbellies, Hermes helmet etc… :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Kareen;4584592]
A horse that can’t be safely turned out because it would injure itself isn’t managed QR I’m sorry. It does make you wonder - since most horses are turned out up until they hit riding age - what it is that turns them into such mental cases and when this change occurs. Funnily it must be something directly related to their monetary value at least if they are dressage horses. Interesting that horses would even notice lol
Even dangerous, firespitting Salinero must have survived turnout somehow. People are too funny.[/QUOTE]
My filly lived in pasture until she was three. How she survived is beyond me but it wasn’t without the occasional injury. Once moved to a “real barn” with more limited turnout she turned into a lunatic when out. I like to turnout all my horses but given the injuries shes had she will not go out again until shes retired. She is very nice, but not Totilas nice of course. Still no more turnout. It happens. Some horses just lose too much training time due to injuries, or worse yet end up needing to be retired.
Know yore right about evrything, didn't I tell you, what I beleive, somebody said that. No Fridgesnack said that. Yore right. Always I thing. But I was waiting for you to say that. Thang you for saying. Fridge thangs you for saying. Its y she posted that for you. Me, I like brown bots. I always have brown boots when I was a kid.Ask Karin Offield about having a nice GP horse that had a career-ending injury from a turnout and then let’s chat.
[QUOTE=cute_lil_fancy_pants_pony;4585384]
Do those who feel that lack of turnout is horrible, feel the same way about the Spanish Riding School?[/QUOTE]
Same with the French Riding School (at least for ten months out of the year…).
[edit]
As for the topic at hand. It is bad horsemanship to dissalow any horse turnout time. SRS, Olympic stars and backyard nags all.
For those that think it is safer for the horse to have zero turnout - It is extrmely debilitating to their bodies/minds to not be able to move about freely. This is probably why horses that dont get turned out much get hurt so often - they lost their turn out smarts and their bodies just are not “fit” for t/o.
While I think 24/7 optional t/o (horse is free to come and go as he pleases) is ideal, even a couple hours a day in a paddock big enough for the horse to move freely forward (even if not big enough to build a head of steam) is critical to their well being both body and mind.
While I dont like Anthropomorphizing, think about how your body would feel if you stood in a 3’x3’ box 24/7 with only time out for forced/directed exercise…
I think that is distortion. If you read the description, the horses are not in that sort of routine. They are brought out and walked in hand several times a day, as well as ridden. And most of the horses I see in that sort of situation, actually are rather happy. Spanish Riding School, Saumur, many therapeutic riding horse places, lots of places do this.
I think horses can adjust to a number of different routines. As long as they get a lot of attention and activity, I think they can do very well.
And no, I don’t think it’s really an option to turn out a horse like Totilas. They are a lot fitter than the average amateur horse, first of all, so are far less likely to ‘just play a little and eat’. They are of a far less phlegmatic temperament, they’re a lot more likely to get hurt.
I think that most horses can be maintained without being out in a field. Instead of socializing in a pasture the horses are in the arena together, as well as seeing eachother in the barn and when they are walked out. Too, these show horses are bred from show horses who did well in this sort of situation.
Too, I don’t think that most amateur owned horses get out as much as these horses do. In many decades, I’ve never seen any amateur get their horse out of its stall that many times a day.
A small percentage of Americans can leave their horse out in a field 24/7 or for quite a big part of the day, most cannot, and I would not say all their horses are unhappy.
These days, most amateur horses spend most of their life in a stall - it goes out in a small paddock, or grass occasionally, and is ridden infrequently for brief periods. And is quite happy. Food, other horses all around, a routine.
What I think is cruel is if a horse is kept alone, with no other horses around, like in a person’s backyard where there are no other horses near.
Actually I found the article a little sad. It seems to say, there is no question any more that the exaggerated extended trot and hyperflexion are good or bad, we are all done, and all are happily watching the ‘New Dressage’. I just really am not sure everyone feels that way.
[QUOTE=mbm;4585611]
think about how your body would feel if you stood in a 3’x3’ box 24/7 with only time out for forced/directed exercise…[/QUOTE]
What makes you think they are in a stall 24/7? Look, I choose turnout for my horse and I accept the risk that goes with it. The way I minimize the risk is that I board at a facility that has stalls with runs and freeze my butt off all winter so that my horse always has access to outside so that when she goes into pasture, it’s no big deal. But I have been in serious training barns and the horses are not left to rot in their stalls. They are taken out, groomed, put into a walker, handwalked, saddled and hacked, fussed with, etc., all before training.
I covet the brown boots, but not the Hermes helmets or the matchy matchy. 
Right, so if lack of turnout constitutes cruelty then I guess some of you should visit Europe, particularly in Winter, and close down 90% of the facilities there. That way you can rid the world of such inhumane treatment, with the added bonus of doing away with centuries of horsemanship know-how. Or maybe it would be easier to stop extrapolating your own personal experiences and limited worldview to every corner of the earth - though no doubt less stimulating. I can tell you from my own limited experience that it’s NO FUN to have a horse that can’t be turned out - it requires hours of extra work, walking out in hand, long lining, etc. But when necessary it’s worth it to protect our animals from injuries on ice, mud, and in some cases from other animals. Yes, in some cases it’s about money but in most others it’s simple necessity due to weather conditions and availability of land. Is it ideal? No. But be careful before you lay the charge of cruelty against such a large sector of the horse-owning world.
[QUOTE=mbm;4585611]
It is bad horsemanship to dissalow any horse turnout time. SRS, Olympic stars and backyard nags all. [/QUOTE]
Agreed. It’s the equivalent of a 10-20 year sentence of solitary confinement at Leavenworth. Should be a crime.
That’s just nasty.:lol:
Note that the article did NOT say the horse was NEVER turned out, it said he wasn’t turned out ALONE:
As with many dressage horses, Totilas is not turned out by himself as he “flips out” and could injure himself.
I agree that turnout is good for horses. I’m very pro-turnout, and tend to leave my horse out 24/7 if the weather permits. However, in its natural environment, horses don’t stand in areas the size of paddocks or even fields, they move over a large area throughout day. Take a look at horses at a lot of boarding facility turnouts, and you will see them standing around in one area most of the time. Personally, I feel that if you don’t have the room for your horse to live free-range (which is rare in a lot of the US and non-existant in Europe) getting hand-walked, ridden, and exercised in the Euro-cizer probably gives the horse the level of physical activity closer to what it would get in the wild.
This thread was obviously intended to stir things up - “normal”? “OMG drawreins?” " Turnout?" .
The sentiments of the article are well illustrated by the OP…
[QUOTE=Coreene;4585513]
Ask Karin Offield about having a nice GP horse that had a career-ending injury from a turnout and then let’s chat.[/QUOTE]
Again putting your self interest over the interest of the horse.
