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Spin-off from the "rare breed" stallion - Akhal-Teke's, why would you want one?

Sport Horse Breeding
#1

The Akhal-Teke Association of America website states:

“The Akhal-Teke horses are vigorous, excitable, and restless. Thousands of years of selective breeding have left their mark not only on their physical appearance and efficiency, but also on their behavior…Due to the way in which they were raised and bred they are essentially one-master horses and bonding with a human owner is in their blood. Some Tekes may be difficult when ridden by strangers. With them you cannot achieve obedience by shouting or punishment; a glance, a small gesture, or a soft-spoken word are sufficient. A punishment not understood by the horse can cause them to be in a defensive mood for weeks.”

I know they are also supposed to be bred with a Cheetah or Greyhound-lie appearance and are docked if their necks are not set on high out of the shoulder. Why would anyone want to be breeding these here in North America? :confused: I hate to offend anyone breeding them, but what is the point of breeding an animal with that specific temperament? I wouldn’t think there would be much desire or demand for it here.

…I guess maybe that’s why they are considered a “rare” breed. Anyone on here breeding them? I’d like to know “what’s in it” for the average equine consumer! :wink: I know that many of the “rare” breeds become a fad, for various reasons, but this does not seem like a breed that could have a fad or a standard niche in the industry.

#2

I think there are one or two breeders on COTH…I know for sure of one, but I do not think she is breeding any longer.

I’m a bit unimpressed with the language on their website…I think that may be crap advertising and definitely not “promoting” the breed in any way.

I really liked some of the Akhal-Tekes a while back when I was looking at starting my own breeding program… but what I soon realized after some research, is when I found that there were a few people out there crossing them on WB’s…and how nice the results actually were!

I can’t remember his name at the moment… but there is a bay akhal-teke/WB cross stallion out there… he is smaller… but was quite successful in dressage… Maybe someone else will chime in on his name!

#3

I couldn’t agree more! :yes:

#4

I’m pretty sure JER on this board has an A-T or A-T cross eventing :slight_smile:

#5

Well…I breed a historical rare breed also known for it’s toughness, endurance, and soundness; and sometimes when I read this forum and all problems people have with modern breeds that need hock injections at 5 years old or where OCD is such a risk, I wonder why anyone would want one of “those.” :wink: I ask myself why anyone would want such a big horses also as 14-15 hands is so much more reasonably sized.:winkgrin: I’ll probably jinx myself by saying this but I haven’t had an unsound Spanish Mustang yet…they really are sound, tough little horses. I don’t miss the old days of many vets bills and rehabs.

Our breed I think is not unlike the Akal Tekes in that they bond strongly to their people, and they are not horses that will take abusive or forceful training…they will fight back. Once you win their trust though they will do anything for you. One of the breed’s founders, Robert Brislawn, used to do surveying for months with his Spanish Mustangs back in the early 1900’s. He did not even have to hobble or tether them at night. They’d be there in the morning waiting by his camp…he being the herd leader.

I have not tested that with my own horses since there are a lot of roads, cars and stuff that can get a horse in big trouble if they do wander away but they are very tuned in to you with a canny intelligence…quite different from many other modern horses I am around.

I think what the website is doing is sort of a warning that will scare off anyone who is less than super interested in the horses. I’ve seen Spanish Mustang breeders do the same and I know one large ranch breeder who tells people that SM’s will go crazy in a barn and they HAVE to live outside. That is completely untrue but they do live outside quite happily and tolerate all sorts of weather with stoicism.

I remember also when the Jack Russell Terrier Club put out a brochure called “Bad Dog Talk” so prospective puppy buyers would know that these high energy bull headed little terriers are not the perfect dog for apartments or families with small children. Same kind of thing…

I think the “old” breeds like these are so unique that they only attract certain people who appreciate those unique qualities that they have over modern horses. I certainly think that everyone marches to the beat of a different drum though and that is what makes the world so interesting.

#6

I have an Akhal-Teke stallion who has competed successfully at PSG. He won his under-saddle class at Dressage at Lexington last year too (with me)! I recently read the Akhal-Teke Association of America’s website and was very disturbed. My stallion is not at all what they describe. He has bred a number of Warmblood and Thoroughbred mares and they are a really neat cross. I have two 2010 foals by him. One is out of an Emancipator TB mare and the other is out of a gasp!..Arabian mare! Here is a video of the Akhal-Teke/Arab foal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=954r6ULBBO0

We have a couple of our own mares in foal to him for this year. One that I am really excited about is a BWP mare by Lotus T.

I do realize that a large majority of Akhal-Tekes out there are not Dressage type horses, but there are always exceptions to the rule. I am having a lot of fun with mine and it is neat to have an “exotic” breed in my barn.

#7

Ibex is correct. :slight_smile: I have a 5 year-old mare by the Akhal-Teke stallion Super Star and out of my TB mare.

The description that Daventry posted couldn’t be further from my experiences.

Super Star is owned by COTH member Winsock. Maybe she’ll jump in here and talk about him. (ETA: We were posting at the same time!) He’s very versatile stallion who crosses well with ponies, TBs and WBs. He also had a stallion brother who was sold to Europe, evented to Advanced and then had a career in endurance.

My TB-Teke mare has about the most solid, intelligent brain you could hope for in a horse. She loves to work, is brave and curious, and is 200% trustworthy under saddle. From the day we first sat on her, anyone could get on her and ride anywhere, alone or in company. At four, she was a safe lesson horse for kids.

(FWIW, the TB-Teke’s half-sisters and mother are not quite like her. They’re not as intelligent and don’t have the same sense of taking care of their rider.)

I’ve met a number of other ATs along the way that have been similarly impressive. They do like to have a job, they do like to work long hours and they’re interested in what’s going on around them.

#8

Thanks JER!

I’m off to ride my Akhal-Teke…

#9

I’m not trying to be rude or anything but I don’t know too many horses that take kindly to rough punishment and a cruel hand no matter what the breed.

I know Spanish mustangs are tough and endurance is tough. Maybe fortunately not much is expected of them early and I mean that in a good way. Quite honestly many horses going around and getting injected all the time is somewhat unnecessary. Take a trip to some if these forums and it’s almost a badge of honor to inject horses. Been in many barns over here and don’t see too many horses getting injected and they compete and race for many years.

Remember also in highly commercial breeds money talks. The young uber talented horse may be pushed a little too hard a little to early for financial gain. It certainly isn’t always the case.

I have respect for all different breeds that don’t necessarily interest me in a sport way. I see an amazing QH doing a fab reining test and I am impressed. I don’t start nit picking because it doesn’t move like my warmblood. No I think they are built and move the exact way they are supposed to for that amazing test they just did. Same with your breed Sharon. And my you have some stunning horses! Great examples of the breed and nothing like my warmblood or TB’s but who cares about that. Beautiful horses you’ve bred to do the jibs they were meant to do.

As far as the AT’s are concerned I really know nothing about the breed. Know they have some weird colors and that will attract it’s own following, but as far as what they are good at, I haven’t got a clue.

Terri

#10

Thank you AT people. Now I have a bit better understanding!

Terri

#11

Here’s the famous AT stallion Absent, Olympic champion in dressage in 1960. Notice how spooky he is when the newspaper blows around his legs.

Here’s some vintage Akhal-Teke jumping.

A Super Star x WB foal is here.

#12

Why would I want one? Because when I was a kid, I had The Observer’s Book Of Horses and the Akhal Teke was pale shiny metallic gold unlike anything I had (or have) ever seen. My ambition was to go to Khazakstahn (or whatever it is now), buy one and ride it back across Europe.

That’s why.

(Didn’t say I’d breed one for the color before y’all go bat$*it on me!!)

#13

True, but not many will actually fight back and put a hoof in you. I certainly was not suggesting that abusive or rough training is acceptable for any horse but I do think some breeds will react differently and perhaps with less an instinct for survival than horses of a breed that survived several centuries with no one’s help. That was my only point in saying that.

[quote=Equilibrium;5359778]I know Spanish mustangs are tough and endurance is tough. Maybe fortunately not much is expected of them early and I mean that in a good way. Quite honestly many horses going around and getting injected all the time is somewhat unnecessary. Take a trip to some if these forums and it’s almost a badge of honor to inject horses. Been in many barns over here and don’t see too many horses getting injected and they compete and race for many years.

[/quote]

I agree that much of what is done is unnecessary, as a “prevention” versus as a real treatment of a problem. Many of the modern horses are worked hard young as there is a lot of money in pushing them and many problems are a result of that. I wish it was so that our breed’s horses were not started young also but I know of quite a few started and worked hard young…so that’s not just a phenomenon of modern or popular breeds.

My intent in what I posted earlier wasn’t to put down anyone’s horses but rather to show why someone might want one of the unique and old breeds like Akhal Teke’s (which was what the OP was asking) instead of a modern sporthorse and using my own breed as an example.

#14

My guess is lipizzan…totally under-utilized and magnificent breed that I plan to someday own :slight_smile:

#15

oops wrong thread! hehe

#16

I worked for short time for an Akhal-Teke breeder many years ago. My friend rode and showed one (their stallion) in eventing and dressage doing quite well through 4th level. My other friend (all 3 of us worked for the same breeder) rode an oops - the result of a shitland x akhal-teke clandestine affair, in eventing and dressage also doing quite well before all three of us had to spend more time on our studies and getting real jobs in the end (ie, the end was graduation). Though it’s been a long time and my work was mostly with the babies and foaling out the mares, I did not find them to be any different temperament-wise than many Arabs I knew and know.

I also find it a bit ironic that a Welsh breeder would bring this up because many of the Welsh cobs could be described similarly (temperament) if they end up in the wrong hands. In other words there are those breeds that have strong survival instincts and either because they’re shorter in stature or slight of build we humans have a stupid habit of thinking we can man handle our way through it. As a result they fight or resist, win the battle with the stupid human who neglected to set up the situation to insure that the human would save some face and now you have an intelligent animal with a new evasion. While I do find the jargon a bit of a deterrent I have 3 welsh cobs here I was given for free that could have used some sort of similar “warning” or better screening of buyers so that they did not end up being a beast with significant baggage. While I don’t see this problem with the Section Bs I do see this all too often with the cobs.

If I were into eventing I would seriously consider an Akhal-Teke. Once you have one who gives you their heart and being, there are few boundaries but what you create.

#17

You put that so much better than I did and that is exactly what I meant to say about a breed that you cannot “fight” with and win. I tell people that they need to make sure they are training their Spanish Mustang versus the other way around. :slight_smile:

#19

While I am no Akhal-Teke breeder

obviously I am a Knabstrupper breeder.
I live just down the road from one of the biggest and oldest AT herds in the USA. Shenandoah Farms, and I have two part bred AT mares.

I once saw the stallion Sengar go around Rolex with Craig Thompson, and he was an unbelievable athlete.

I have bred my Oldenburg mare to him and have a super filly, now a year old. We’ll see what she turns out to do.

I also have a mare by Senetir (sire of Sengar I believe), out of a TB mare. Katira is 14 or 15 yrs old and is a schoolmaster for a young boy.
She not an easy horse to ride, but she is brave, scopey and tough. She is teaching her kid a lot about riding that I can say.

In many ways it’s a better cross to use to lighten up old fashioned heavy WB mares than either Arabian or TB.

Their temperaments are no worse than any TB or Arabian stallion, but they are much tougher and sounder than either of those breeds, IMO. At least for local stallions around here, I’d far rather use an AT than any of our local TBs or Arabians.

They do have conformational issues so you have to be careful what you breed to one not to get the worst of both worlds in the foal.

Of course there are better ATs and worse ATs.

YMMV.
MW

#20

What are some of the conformational issues to watch out for when breeding?

#21

they are not for stupid people to fiddle with

Tamara in TN

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