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Spin-off from the "rare breed" stallion - Akhal-Teke's, why would you want one?

The point is, I think the AT Association needs to have someone re-write their website!

Daventry I did get your point and even acknowledged that the wording wasn’t the best; but I do understand the how and the why behind it.

I also understand why you’ve had nothing but good experiences with the welsh cobs, knowing who you have; but, that doesn’t change the fact that some are less forgiving of ignorant handling and/or overfacing.

Melyni, my friend use to ride Senetir way, way back when. I think I still have an old picture of the two of them together going over a jump at a local event.

Much of what I remember seeing in terms of conformational issues was chocked up to poor nutrition or probably a better way to put it, ill advised practices. Again this was more than two decades ago (closer to three). I’m willing to bet that much has improved since then.

  • Super Star, was the stallion I had been thinking of! Thank you for that refresher. I was very impressed by him and his get!

As far as conformational “watch outs”…I know for me… they’re backs can be a tad longer than desirable… and then their neck, and neck sets…

…But I think that’s what I liked so much about the Alkhal-Teke crosses for sporthorse breeding…was the improvements and compliments on the resulting foal.

I was thinking about it earlier… The kind of advertising on the AT website… I’ve run into this while puppy shopping…

…to the point that even WITH experience (several) of some of the dog breeds I was looking at… I still sat scratching my head saying…“Well maybe I really don’t want one after all…”

I agree, I think they need someone to redo their wording for them… and it needs to be a lot less “scary”…I think they perhaps have good intentions…but are doing a huge disservice and scaring most people away…which I’m sure isn’t their intention…

Molly Malone

“Why would I want one? Because when I was a kid, I had The Observer’s Book Of Horses and the Akhal Teke was pale shiny metallic gold unlike anything I had (or have) ever seen. My ambition was to go to Khazakstahn (or whatever it is now), buy one and ride it back across Europe.”

…I literally LOL’d and pointed at my screen and said “Me too Me too”!

It’s neat to see someone else with the same experience on that LOL.

[QUOTE=exvet;5360307]
[I]
I also understand why you’ve had nothing but good experiences with the welsh cobs, knowing who you have; but, that doesn’t change the fact that some are less forgiving of ignorant handling and/or overfacing.

Melyni, my friend use to ride Senetir way, way back when. I think I still have an old picture of the two of them together going over a jump at a local event. I’m willing to bet that much has improved since then.

Much of what I remember seeing in terms of conformational issues was chocked up to poor nutrition or probably a better way to put it, ill advised practices. Again this was more than two decades ago (closer to three).[/QUOTE]

I didn’t mean Senetir has conformation issues, I meant the breed in general. But I agree that lean greyhound look is sometimes achieved by simply not feeding the horses properly with unfortunate results.

Huge generalization, but they can have a poor neck/shoulder connection, which makes it hard to get them to lift their backs, I have seen more than a few with very upright feet.
They can also be very down hill if you are not selective again that might be a nutritional issue.

They sometime look as if both front legs are coming out of the same hole, a trait very dependent on good nutrition at the right time IME.

One or two of the mares are a bit narrow in the pelvis and hip to be bred to stallions any bigger than AT stallions which makes the cross breeding a problem. Of course my huge wide WB mare had NO problem with her AT filly!

Like any breed there a good ones and not-so-good ones, you have to be selective.

Most importantly you have to breed the stallions to good tempered mares. They are hotter and more reactive than many WBs and if you cross an AT on a hot tempered bad attitude WB you just get a big athletic horse with a bad attitude.
I had one of those, thankfully gone now.
Yours
MW

I didn’t mean Senetir has conformation issues, I meant the breed in general.

No actually I didn’t think you had. I already corrected my post. That statement (regarding the improvement) was suppose to end the last paragraph. I actually found Senetir attractive as I did two of the mares; but, I do know very well about the two legs out of one hole phenom. Some of the youngstock I dealt with did have issues as a direct result of what was fed at the time so the problems were breed-related (genetic) but on “that” breed the outcome really was accentuated.

lol ;), no, Brandysnap is just my latest Cob. He is definitely a blast!! But, up until getting him, I’ve gotten Cobs with similar histories to yours, as well as some lovely ones too. We’ve either had them come into the barn for training or helped the owners find a reputable trainer to send them to in their area. All of them either had bad breeding, bad handling or bad training…or all of the above. :wink: One mare in particular, I actually told the owner I wouldn’t ride her as she was too dangerous and basically wrote her off. But, after some interesting discoveries with her, I completely restarted her under saddle - her brain was absolutely fried from bad training and handling. She, along with all of the others, had 110% heart and eventually turned into lovely riding and competition horses - all have become amateur and junior mounts. But, the ones we’ve had in, I attest it to bad training, not so much a breed thing, as even “easily trained” breeds came out of those two farms completely bonkers. I found them no harder to fix than the other wrecked breeds we’ve had in over the years.

So, my experience has been that, even the wrecked Cobs we’ve had in the barn all worked hard and turned around into lovely animals. But it’s no different than the wrecked Appaloosas, TBs, Arabs, Morgans or other breeds that we’ve gotten into the barn to “fix” due to poor ownership or bad training. My good friend worked out of our barn for years and she had a reputation for taking in the horses that were on their “last try” and had virtually been written off…so I’ve definitely seen lots over the years :wink:

I absolutely agree though that some breeds are much more forgiving. While I know there are exceptions, on average, a QH or Paint is likely much harder to wreck than a hot Thoroughbred or Arab and we definitely didn’t have them (Qhs or Paints) coming in for retraining as much as some of the other breeds. :wink:

I think because there are really so few Cobs over here, any of the bad ones are much more easy to single out, than say bad QHs coming out of one or two barns. They are much less noticeable than the rest of them as there are so many QHs around. With one farm in particular, past buyers are constantly calling me and asking me to sell their Cob for them and saying they “will never buy one again”. No…you just don’t want to buy them again from “X” farm! :no: And it is sad, as they are producing so many of them and shoving them out into the industry and giving them a bad name. But, for those few owners that have had a bad experience, and have now been able to purchase a well bred and well handled Cob, they are in love with the breed again!

Are they like the average QH, no. But like I said, they’ve impressed me enough over the years that I have much admiration for the breed.

I dont know how many people know this but the Nez Perce tribe has been trying to reclaim their heritage by using the Akhal Tekes on their mares, trying to breed- out the QH influence and restore some of the very traits mentioned. There was some DNA research to back this up, claiming they (the nez perce horses) were not descended in whole from the horses of spanish explorers. I did read there was some division with the original registry called the Nez Perce Horse registry over the exclusive use of several imported Akhal Teke stallions as foundation sires where there was quality concerns.

Anyway, I found it a moving and uplifting endeavor for these people and interesting to see the Akhel Teke influence in it.

http://www.nezpercehorseregistry.com/main.html

http://www.uiweb.uidaho.edu/idahonatives/nez/horse.html

So, my experience has been that, even the wrecked Cobs we’ve had in the barn all worked hard and turned around into lovely animals.

I can say the same for mine except one. He was too far gone and there was no turning him around. I rode him for 6 months and though I never got hurt he continued to do things that translated into him being too willing to hurt himself to get away from the monster (whatever that might be). If I was on him and the monster was behind him it was good but if I was off of him and the monster was behind him he would run through fences, people, etc to get away. Totally lost his mind he had, but he’s still here as a baby sitter. Even 10 years after he first arrived, he will still flip at the slightest perceived threat and try to hurt whomever or whatever is closest to him even if it’s a self-sacrificial act. He is definitely the extreme…and fortunately for me I knew he wasn’t representative of the breed. I agree that being a relatively unknown or lesser known breed due to numbers that the bad ones can have a tendency to “color” the breed; and that is no different for ATs.

I don’t find Welsh Cobs any different than morgans or Arabs with the exception of having a ton more power. I just think they’re more prone to be ruined even by well intentioned people because they fail to realize the size and power that is there. I also agree that it’s not the breed per se but the training. It’s just that today you find fewer and fewer people who really know how to train the individual and more who have a one size fits all approach even to the point that if it’s a section C “no problem” I’ll just “make him do it” :lol::D:winkgrin: um, yeah right :winkgrin:

I think one of the 3 “ruined” ones I have can safely go on to a junior or amateur. The one I described will be put in his grave by me when the time comes. The other, though I’m having an absolute blast with him and love him to no end, I’m not so sure he’ll be ridden by anyone else. At least my riding instructor and kids don’t think so and while I’m always hoping I know he’s not there yet (but a whole lot closer than he was).

There are some bloodlines I do choose to stay away from but that has as much to do with type and conformation as it does with temperament.

Getting back on track with your OP, I do agree the website is doing a bit of a disservice to the breed but I can’t blame those who made the decision to put it there. It does get tiresome to find out about “another one” who is not meeting the ideal in the average American’s eyes. As to whose fault it is, well, I think there are many who share in the blame including a few breeders.

Well now we are talking about Welsh Cobs

That’s a breed with a wide variation in temperament!

I grew up riding WCs and WC crosses. The University where I did my Masters degree University College of Wales (Aberystwyth) had inherited one of the great Welsh Cob breeding farms and we got to handle and try to ride some of those cobs.

They can be the best and they can be the worst of horses!

My best horse I ever had as a teenager was a WC/TB, hot, hot hot, gorgeous golden buckskin, jumped anything (literally), I loved him, and loved riding him.

A small WC driving horse put me in hospital once by backing into me and keeping on backing! I mean that sucker tried to squash me flat, nearly succeeded too. I had 3 damaged ribs and bruised sternum. All because I tried to pull his mane for his owner.

I always remember Llanbydder Market and all the cobs and ponies coming down off the hills running through the town on their way to the market.

Or the big Welsh show at the 3 counties show grounds at Malvern with all the rings full of cobs and ponies most of them showing at a very fast trot!

A colorful breed with a long history not unlike the Akhal-Teke.

MW

To what Melyni said about conformation, I’ll add: Watch the pasterns.

ATs tend to have longish pasterns, in keeping with the general AT theme of ‘long’ – long backs, long necks, long legs, long heads. None of these things are ‘faults’, it’s just how they are. But I wouldn’t breed a TB or WB with long pasterns to an AT.

Here’s a photo of my TB-Teke at 3, in her cowgirl outfit. She’s turning 6 this year and will be starting her eventing career. Mike Plumb has said ‘she’ll go far’ in the sport – despite being only 14.1hh.

(Her parents are 15.2hh and 16hh. Her half-sisters are over 16hh. She was a tiny, full-term foal and has stayed small.)

She’s very cute!

Looks like she jumps like a teke, with less than perfect knees.
They sure can jump, but their style isn’t always the best!

MW

Here’s my AT/Oldenburg filly at 2 mos.

Seska 2 sml.jpg

[QUOTE=DontStrikeOut;5360512]
“Why would I want one? Because when I was a kid, I had The Observer’s Book Of Horses and the Akhal Teke was pale shiny metallic gold unlike anything I had (or have) ever seen. My ambition was to go to Khazakstahn (or whatever it is now), buy one and ride it back across Europe.”

…I literally LOL’d and pointed at my screen and said “Me too Me too”!

It’s neat to see someone else with the same experience on that LOL.[/QUOTE]

Me three!! Me three!!! :smiley:

Awesome Kinsella!

Wonder how many more there are!!

[QUOTE=DontStrikeOut;5361413]
Awesome Kinsella!

Wonder how many more there are!![/QUOTE]

Add me!:lol:
That coat had me mesmerized. After a while the book just fell open to that page whenever you picked it up.

I think COTH should add a “like” button like FB LOL… Mara… I <liked> your comment… I had my book forever, until our basement flooded and it was ruined =(

But the spine definitely caused it to open to that page.

There was also a draft breed…(in the same book) and it had a jet black coat… and a copperish mane and tail…

LOL the real test… anyone remember THAT photo/breed?!

Melyni, what are you looking at?

If it’s jumping and it’s in my Flickr photostream, it’s not the TB-Teke.

The o/f pics are of her half-sister, who is by Catherston Dazzler and is a DWB/TB cross. Who, I guess, jumps like a Teke. :slight_smile: And who is about to move up to Advanced in eventing. :smiley: (Those photos are from her very first ever Novice outing in 2008.) I assure you her knees are more stylish over serious fences.

The TB-Teke is actually quite stylish and would fit very nicely in the large pony hunters.

Your filly is adorable. (I never get any white.)

[QUOTE=Mara;5361639]
Add me!:lol:
That coat had me mesmerized. After a while the book just fell open to that page whenever you picked it up.[/QUOTE]

And me! LOL

Just wondering where Kyzteke is…not sure the conversation can be complete without her input!

Add me too!

I also wanted a Budyonny, which also had a metallic sheen to its coat. :smiley:

Just wondering where Kyzteke is…not sure the conversation can be complete without her input!

Wondering the same thing. Don’t have much invested in this discussion, but I keep checking back to see if she has weighed in.