Spin-off - performance careers of the most popular N.A. based warmblood stallions

[QUOTE=not again;4162115]
Can any one name the performance level attained by popular stallions?[/QUOTE]

Ive only listed stallions we have used for our own mares…If my ancient memory serves me well (sometimes it doesnt!) I think Fuerst Gotthard was in the world cup and a grand prix jumper with the name of ‘Titelist’, Cordini is at (or was recently at) Grand prix jumpers with an amateur, Werbellin is out currently in Dressage, not sure what level this year but last year was intermediare and probably now grand prix. He had a show jumping career in Germany.
Its too early here to do much more ‘thinking’ gotta get a cup of coffee!

Did Riverman and Contucci have performance careers ? I don’t remember them competing.

Not all of the Wild Turkey stallions are showing. There’s a young, handsome one that’s advertised, but the last time I saw him, he could barely be ridden - it wasn’t his fault, he just needed a better rider to start him properly.

There are quite a few stallions on your list that I wouldn’t consider “most used” stallions. I don’t think Chakka Khan and South Pacific have had that many outside foals and were mostly bred to their farm mares. While I think they are going to be very popular, Escudo II and Mexzcalero are both fairly new to breeding in the US. Judgement has not had that many foals. I almost never hear mention that someone has bred to or has a foal by the Wild Turkey stallions, Landkoenig, Leonidas, and Isejelmeer (probably Landkoenig more than the others). I have never even heard of Condini before. To be accurate, maybe you should put a condition on it that the stallions needs to have had at least 200 or 300 foals on the ground to be considered “most used”?

“To be accurate, maybe you should put a condition on it that the stallions needs to have had at least 200 or 300 foals on the ground to be considered “most used”?”

While that criteria will eliminate a lot from the list it will definatelly include Landkoenig

Because I am stuck indoors today with a bad cold I looked some of these up :slight_smile:

Contucci - I don’t think he was shown - trained to Grand Prix apparently
Riverman - Shown through 3rd level
Feiner Stern - ? not shown
Sempatico - showed up to 2nd level (lightly)
Rosenthal - not shown
Fabuleux - not shown
Pablo -? not shown ?
Escudo II - not shown
Popeye K - Regular Conformation Hunter
Alla C’zar - shown A/O hunters and up to PSG - (deceased)
Rio Grande - GP jumper
Frohwind - PSG and open jumper
Art Deco -GP Dressage also shown in jumpers, hunters and evented
All the Gold - Regular working hunter
Zarr - not shown
Fuerst Gotthard - GP jumper “The titlest”
Landkoenig - not shown
Diamont - ? (deceased)
Prinz Gaylord - ? (deceased)
Chakka Khan - Regular Working Hunter
Cabaret - jumpers (prelim) and GP dressage
Lemgo - GP jumper
South Pacific - GP jumper (deceased)
Judgement - GP jumper
Consul - dressage and jumper (lower levels?)
Balta’Czar - 1st year Green hunters, 4th level dressage
The Wild Turkey Stallions:
Lavita - GP jumper
Liocalyon - GP jumper
Admiral Z -GP jumper
Chesapeake - Not shown
LaMarque - young jumpers
Mezcalero - GP jumper
Routinier - Intermediare-1 dressage
Leonidas - GP Dressage
Isjeelmer - GP Dressage
Freestyle - 4th level dressage
Rubino Bellissimo - GP dressage
Budweiser - GP jumper, dressage(?)
Werbellin - Intermediare I dressage
Wonderful - 4th level dressage
Cordini - GP jumper
Galoubet - GP jumper
Idocus - GP dressage

Assuming I am thinking of the correct Cordini, my yearling is by Cordini. He was sold by Hilltop and gave a junior confidence until he was retired as she is now in college. They just did this piece in 12-08
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/SamInfo/SM_Dec08/2008112502/30.html

[QUOTE=Mardi;4162922]
Did Riverman and Contucci have performance careers ? I don’t remember them competing.

Not all of the Wild Turkey stallions are showing. There’s a young, handsome one that’s advertised, but he can barely be ridden. It’s not his fault…he needs a better rider.[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure that Riverman and Contucci competed through 2nd or 3rd Levels in dressage.

Don’t know much about the Wild Turkey stallions, though.

[QUOTE=showjumpers66;4163197]
There are quite a few stallions on your list that I wouldn’t consider “most used” stallions. I don’t think Chakka Khan and South Pacific have had that many outside foals and were mostly bred to their farm mares. While I think they are going to be very popular, Escudo II and Mexzcalero are both fairly new to breeding in the US. Judgement has not had that many foals. I almost never hear mention that someone has bred to or has a foal by the Wild Turkey stallions, Landkoenig, Leonidas, and Isejelmeer (probably Landkoenig more than the others). I have never even heard of Condini before. To be accurate, maybe you should put a condition on it that the stallions needs to have had at least 200 or 300 foals on the ground to be considered “most used”?[/QUOTE]

I agree, there are many on the list that I do not think would qualify for “most used” - no way, no how. The problem is, who is to say which ones had at least 200-300 foals? I am sure that Riverman, Contucci, and Feiner Stern are up there, probably Popeye K, Alla C’zar, but I rather doubt very many of the others can meet those numbers - maybe some of the well known “old guys” like Frohwind, etc.

Oops, add Landkoenig. Sorry, Edgar. :smiley:

My apologies, Edgar! It would be nice if accurate breeding reports were available from the registries to breeders.

[QUOTE=Edgar;4163258]
“To be accurate, maybe you should put a condition on it that the stallions needs to have had at least 200 or 300 foals on the ground to be considered “most used”?”

While that criteria will eliminate a lot from the list it will definatelly include Landkoenig[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=showjumpers66;4163197]
There are quite a few stallions on your list that I wouldn’t consider “most used” stallions. … To be accurate, maybe you should put a condition on it that the stallions needs to have had at least 200 or 300 foals on the ground to be considered “most used”?[/QUOTE]

Nevada has over 200 foals, so that would include him in a most used list for that criteria.

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;4162571]
DY - I think we should add Don Principe and Royal Prince. Both get a number of mares and are out there competing. I am not sure about top 10 “most used”, but presumably they each get a lot more than the average 5-6 mares for a licensed stallion.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know about Don Principe. His owner had mentioned several times (even on this forum) that he does not attract very many outside mares, and most of his foals are from her own mares. Plus, I think he has only been here since 2004 (or 2005), so probably has somewhat less than 100 foals on the ground.

Royal Prince I would think might be up there in numbers. He is popular, well thought of, well marketed, successful, and owned by Hilltop, so probably attracts a lot of breedings from loyal Hilltop breeders.

[QUOTE=ChelseaR;4163263]
Because I am stuck indoors today with a bad cold I looked some of these up :slight_smile:

Contucci - I don’t think he was shown - trained to Grand Prix apparently
Riverman - Shown through 3rd level
Feiner Stern - ? not shown
Sempatico - showed up to 2nd level (lightly)
Rosenthal - not shown
Fabuleux - not shown
Pablo -? not shown ?
Escudo II - not shown
Popeye K - Regular Conformation Hunter
Alla C’zar - shown A/O hunters and up to PSG - (deceased)
Rio Grande - GP jumper
Frohwind - PSG and open jumper
Art Deco -GP Dressage also shown in jumpers, hunters and evented
All the Gold - Regular working hunter
Zarr - not shown
Fuerst Gotthard - GP jumper “The titlest”
Landkoenig - not shown
Diamont - ? (deceased)
Prinz Gaylord - ? (deceased)
Chakka Khan - Regular Working Hunter
Cabaret - jumpers (prelim) and GP dressage
Lemgo - GP jumper
South Pacific - GP jumper (deceased)
Judgement - GP jumper
Consul - dressage and jumper (lower levels?)
Balta’Czar - 1st year Green hunters, 4th level dressage
The Wild Turkey Stallions:
Lavita - GP jumper
Liocalyon - GP jumper
Admiral Z -GP jumper
Chesapeake - Not shown
LaMarque - young jumpers
Mezcalero - GP jumper
Routinier - Intermediare-1 dressage
Leonidas - GP Dressage
Isjeelmer - GP Dressage
Freestyle - 4th level dressage
Rubino Bellissimo - GP dressage
Budweiser - GP jumper, dressage(?)
Werbellin - Intermediare I dressage
Wonderful - 4th level dressage
Cordini - GP jumper
Galoubet - GP jumper
Idocus - GP dressage[/QUOTE]

Not quite correct on a few of them. Contucci was shown through either 2nd or 3rd Level. Rosenthal was shown through PSG.

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;4163364]
Nevada has over 200 foals, so that would include him in a most used list for that criteria.[/QUOTE]

OK, add Nevada to the list! :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=showjumpers66;4163362]
It would be nice if accurate breeding reports were available from the registries to breeders.[/QUOTE]

Even better if our NBG maintained breeding stats. The problem with relying on the registries is that so many people breeding for hunters and eventers don’t bother registering their foals. I suspect there are a LOT of unregistered hunter foals out there by some of these stallions.

[QUOTE=not again;4162600]
Why wouldn’t you mention Waldaire? He has large foal crops and has garnered 43 national year end awards from training level through Grand Prix. His lifetime average is over 65% and his Intermediare 1 average (not including freestyles) is over 68%.[/QUOTE]

Add Waldaire and Boleem, if they have over 200 foals on the ground.

Agreed!!!

[QUOTE=DownYonder;4163381]
Even better if our NBG maintained breeding stats. The problem with relying on the registries is that so many people breeding for hunters and eventers don’t bother registering their foals. I suspect there are a LOT of unregistered hunter foals out there by some of these stallions.[/QUOTE]

I think with heavily bred stallions, most will have a limited performance career.

With Nevada, he did a lot of in-hand winning, high score at inspection, winner several times at Lexington, Morven, VADA Champion stallion, 7th at Devon, behind 6 Iron Spring and Hilltop Farm 3 year old Colts, highest scoring Belgian Warmblood in a Qualifying class for 1999, etc.

Performance, he has only done a couple of Hunter shows or Combined Tests per year. He has won or been highly placed each time shown, but his breeding schedule just did not allow for a regular training and showing schedule.

With 4 - 5 collections per week, an hour + away, and no in-house trainer, it was just impossible to keep him in work. Trying to be worked into a heavy repro center’s collecting schedule (anytime between 7 and 5), rushing to make a counter to counter flight or FedEx deadline, day after day, week after week is a logistical nighmare by itself.

Nevada’s foals have had to do the performance showing for him. I think you will find that with many popular stallions.

Farms that collect themselves, and have trainers on staff that can adjust their schedule around the stallions collections can do more. Another consideration though is that for cooled semen, we want to ship the best product to the mare that we can. A heavily competing stallion may not be able to maintain that, along with their semen quality as the season goes along, even if training schedules can be worked out.

:lol: DownYonder, you didn’t know what you were getting yourself into, did you?

What constitutes a performance career? For example, Balta’ Czar only competed at 4 shows in the hunters. Is that enough to be considered a career? It is easier to find stallions that have shown here or there, but tougher to find stallions that have actually had a successful career especially if they are also very busy in the breeding shed like Balta’ Czar has been.

Don Principe has only been in the USA since 2005. In 4 years at stud, he has only a small percentage of the numbers you are talking about. Chris is correct- well under 100.

It still astounds us that a GP stallion, at age 10, with multiple registry options and winning offspring cannot get the numbers.

I constantly say that the mare owners are not going to realize what they have passed up until he is no longer available.

Maryanna Haymon
www.marydellfarm.com
2007 USEF Breeder of the Year!

[QUOTE=Mythology;4161453]
Don’t forget
South Pacific
Judgement
Consul
Balta’Czar
The Wild Turkey Stallions
Mezcalero
I’m sure there are more I’m not thinking of…[/QUOTE]

I would be surprised if the Wild Turkey stallion had anywhere near 200 foals on the ground, or Balta Czar or South Pacific, or Werbellin, or Chaka Khan, or Chesapeake, or Admiral Z. I may be way off they don’t seem like they’ve had over 200.