I have been unable to get a breeding with a stallion that is showing right now. That can be a problem, so I’ll go with another. As for Fabuleux, he has been wildly popular here, he’s only sired maybe 3 in Germany before h was imported. Peg
Yes, showing the stallions is costly. It is also hard to show them during breeding season, not just for the scheduling but it wears them out. We try to show them early and later in the season. And for sure can’t afford to go to Florida in the Winter. Stallions cost a lot!
Even if everyone reported all their breedings to the registries, the reports the registries would give is the ones that they register.
Kathy
www.majesticgaits.com
Someone commented on the thread about dilute stallions that many of our most popular warmblood stallions never had performance careers (or if they did, never made it past the lower levels). I thought it might be fun to take a crack at that topic.
This is an interesting thread. And being the OP you can set whatever rules. But just wondering if the criteria that you are setting will give you the best answer to your original question about performance careers and WB stallions. I think the term popular = 200 foals or equaling top ten is more of a trendy definition as opposed to answering the availability of competing stallions. And as the congruent thread is discussing many stallions are getting under 10 mares a year and might not have a 200 # due to not a huge number of mares, lack of registration (visability), availability of semen from all over the world, age of stallion, and competing schedule. Hickstead is an example of a performance stallion that is very popular in name and after this year it is possible that he might have 200, but if he doesn’t isn’t he a good example? Beezie’s Judgment is another. Sometimes, the stud fee or level of performance actually scares people off, but it doesn’t mean that stallions that are competing are not out there.
Here is a different way to see it. Was at the Nationals in SM last week and watched the 1.40 meter class, Beezie, Ian Millar and Eric all had horses in it. Ian was riding a beautiful grey stallion, Eric was riding a stallion also and that was just one class! http://www.sprucemeadows.com/OOG_Results/430.pdf There are a few stallions local to me that compete on that level so I know they are out there. Not sure about the 200, but if 200 people that read this did bred to one of them this year why would it change the fact that they are available and have a record?
Just maybe, many of us are not utilizing these stallion in great numbers, as would be assumed. And as previously mentioned, if they are competing it cuts down of the breeding availability so they probably don’t advertise but I bet there are breedings every year!! But there is no way to bring those numbers into the discussion. The biggest market is for amateurs, so it follows that the stallions that are in your top ten might be excellent minded horses with above average abilities and an ability to pass those traits on consistently, but do not necessarily need to be on a list of FEI horses. And marking is a huge factor in what gets used too or seen as used.
Anyway, the point is I think there are tons of stallions with high level of performance records (I mentioned another one in a previous post), just not sure that that makes them popular in breeding numbers or available knowledge of those numbers. And back to the OP of the Dilute stallion thread, she wanted to know if there were any colored stallions with a high level of competition, if she had left out the color part…… there are many stallions available to her with records!!!
But I think your stipulations are fun and reveling of available stallions and their qualification too!!
BTW I am not saying that I think stallions should have to compete to a high level to be useful. For some breeding programs that might be the case, but for the average breeder I would imagine the character, ridability along with athleticism would be the most sellable traits and therefore the most desirable. Oh and the obvious, the proven offspring. Most really sought after stallions are dead or are super old, because at that time we realize how good they truly are by their offspring.
[QUOTE=avadog;4166364]
Voltaire never stood in the US. I doubt Hall of Fame, Olisco, or Just the Best has 200 offspring.[/QUOTE]
I forgot Voltaire was abroad… but the stallions I mentioned were “household names” around the hunter ring for a number of years. Now that importing horses has become so costly and somewhat frowned upon these days… I am hoping people realize that there are equally amazing horses that are products of domestic breeding programs. Give it a few years, and there will be a long list of North American stallions with 200+ plus on the ground.:yes:
You know, I’ve been meaning to mention to you somewhere that I spent a lot of time with an imported Navarone mare that belongs to a friend of mine. She is one of the quietest, easiest horses I’ve seen in a long time, and quite nice too. Get more of them to the hunter ring :D.
Along the same lines as above: (literally)
NOVALIS - “having shown in North America and Europe to Grand Prix - 1.5 meter under riders Markus Beerbaum, Marc Houtzager, and Laura Kraut.”
http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/stalliondetail.php?horseid=1000162
I may have missed him, but I did not see Ideal listed. I am almost positive he’s had more than 200 foals - although I do not think he showed much at all.
and I am also about positive that Frohwind has 200+ offspring - I own three of them.
And Frohwind also did eventing as well as showed at PSG and jumpers.
I’m not sure if they meet the criteria but they might…
Regazzoni
Donovan ES
Voltaire
You know, I was simply amazed-- amazed-- at how many Voltaire offspring found their way to the hunter rings I watched. But I’m sure they were all Voltaires, because I’m sure that’s what their USEF papers said they were. Lots of Indoctros, too.:yes:
But Back to the Topic…
Performance of NA stallions: yesterday Judgement placed fourth at the Spruce Meadows Derby. This is a 1.60 class. Not too bad. Of course, he’s only 18, so maybe in a few years he’ll be able to repeat his past two wins in this class. How many of our NA stallions have competed at 1.60 through 18? Theo, how many Dutch stallions (or French stallions, or German stalions) have competed through 1.60 classes at 18? Has this stallion ever been injured and kept out of competition? He has very few foals for a very good reason, but even Lance Armstrong overcame that problem, and so did Judgement. Homegrown. Made in the USA. Not too bad.
Bordeaux?
He had a great career run with Kathy Priest and was very popular for awhile. Peg
Someone sent me these stats last night, from the 2008 ISR breeder’s guide. As far as I know, that is the only registry that publishes the number of foals registered, by stallion. The stats reflect the most-used stallions in that registry over the past 20 years. The dates shown after the stallion’s name are apparently for the years that he presented foals for registration.
I know this list does not give a full picture, because most (maybe all) of these stallions also had foals registered with other registries, and many no doubt had a bunch of foals that were never registered at all. Not only that, but some of these stallions were apparently most heavily utilized by their own owners, so we would have to decide whether sheer numbers of registered foals qualifies a stallion for the “most popular” list. Since there is no way to ascertain that for certain, we would probably have to go with these stats as a starting point for discussing the topic at hand.
So can we talk about the performance careers of THESE stallions?
Frohwind, 1988-2007 - 320
Ideal, 1990-2007 - 319
Art Deco, 1992-2007 - 308
Riverman, 1997-2007 - 191
Deutschmeister, 1988-2007 - 182
Alla Czar, 1988-2007 - 179
Fuerst Gotthard, 1987-2007 - 149
Contucci, 1999-2007 - 139
Hall of Fame, 1993-2007 - 136
Cor Noir, 1994-2007 - 99
Mannhattan, 1995-2007 - 98
Rainbow, 1996-2007 - 93
Conquistador, 1990-2007 - 87
Cabaret, 1991-2007 - 85
Sempatico M, 2005-2007 - 85
Impresario, 1990-2007 - 84
Parabol, 1992-2006 - 81
Wradar, 1998-2007 - 79
Welstern, 1988-2007 - 78
Pointmaker, 1995-2007 - 75
Phantast, 1993-2007 - 70
Landkönig, 2002-2007 - 67
Roc USA, 2002-2007 - 64
Bordeaux, 1992-2005 - 58
Lehndorff, 1988-2007 - 52
West Coast and Walldorf were also pretty popular.
I think the first three stallions are only in OldNA.
Nice to see some numbers. But if you used the same concept in thoroughbreds, you would probably find that quality/success is not necessarily equal to quantity.
Since our program is geared toward producing grand prix dressage horses, we use stallions that have done that level if at all possible. They often have small foal crops from their younger years since they were out there competing.
Just a thought…
Windfall
Athens Olympics bronze medal; numerous horse trial wins in . US.
I would say that Gold Luck has well over 200+ foals at this point. But he only went up to first level according to his website (Lymes disease).
Then on the other hand (at the same farm), there is Welcome S, who was once the #1 ranked international dressage horse…and he has how many foals? I would guess not that many.
Caitlin
Excellent point on Welcome S.
He had an international competition career. How many NA stallions have had that?
Good one Carol! How did we miss him?
Look, folks - I will say this again. It was not my intention to mention every single stallion that had an upper level career, but may not have had many foals. Those stallions ARE NOT GERMANE to this discussion.
AGAIN - the FIRST criteria is to come up with a list of the most popular warmblood stallions standing in North America. AFTER we get a working list, we can discuss the performance careers of THOSE stallions.
I posted a list earlier to give us a starting point (see post #92). So can we please get back to discussing the stallions on THAT LIST?
