https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXzBgVUdLkg
While browsing the CC training at Newmarket video, I came across one at the link above that says there is a correlation between stride angle and performance for both horses and humans, and uses CC and other race horses to demonstrate stride angle.
Interesting, anyway. I have never heard of this before, and would be interested in what other people think.
Looks like a spin on stride length. If it was that simple, the horse with the longest stride always wins.
CC would have beaten Affirmed?!?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I agree with Flash44. Looking at length of stride (which is basically what they’re doing) is nothing new. But the horse with the longest stride isn’t necessarily the one who wins.
Kind of funny that they say with certainty in the video that CC is going to win the Triple Crown because of his long stride. And of course, he didn’t.
The video would be more interesting to me if they showed the stride length for all of 2014’s Triple Crown contenders rather than just California Chrome’s. (But that might also undermine their premise.)
There was an article I read a couple years ago written by Dr. Deb Bennett, where she compared the tracking motion of several big name racehorses. One of them was Secretariat, who was also touted as being great in his time simply for having a long stride. I can’t remember all the exact particulars of the article, but Dr. Bennett made a case that one of the big reasons Secretariat was such a great racehorse was because he tracked/ traveled straight-- hind legs followed directly in the path of the forelegs. I think this meant he covered ground better or something because he didn’t run “crooked”. Dang it, I need to see if I still have a copy of that thing…
I’m sure that the efficiency of the stride has something to do with how good a horse is, but it’s not the only measurement that impacts the success of a race horse. I had a horse run over the weekend that got passed by a horse in the stretch, then dug back in and managed to get back in front of the horse that passed him. How do you measure heart, grit and determination?
[QUOTE=Real Rush;8114201]
There was an article I read a couple years ago written by Dr. Deb Bennett, where she compared the tracking motion of several big name racehorses. One of them was Secretariat, who was also touted as being great in his time simply for having a long stride. I can’t remember all the exact particulars of the article, but Dr. Bennett made a case that one of the big reasons Secretariat was such a great racehorse was because he tracked/ traveled straight-- hind legs followed directly in the path of the forelegs. I think this meant he covered ground better or something because he didn’t run “crooked”. Dang it, I need to see if I still have a copy of that thing…[/QUOTE]
A top trainer once said to me about Skipaway, “If you watch that horse run, all four legs are going in four different directions. But they’re all going really, really, fast.” :lol:
[QUOTE=Real Rush;8114201]
There was an article I read a couple years ago written by Dr. Deb Bennett, where she compared the tracking motion of several big name racehorses. One of them was Secretariat, who was also touted as being great in his time simply for having a long stride. I can’t remember all the exact particulars of the article, but Dr. Bennett made a case that one of the big reasons Secretariat was such a great racehorse was because he tracked/ traveled straight-- hind legs followed directly in the path of the forelegs. I think this meant he covered ground better or something because he didn’t run “crooked”. Dang it, I need to see if I still have a copy of that thing…[/QUOTE]
I believe this is an impossibility: The stifles (thus, the hind leg) on all horses are somewhat canted outwards. This is so that the upper hind leg (stifle & gaskin) will clear the barrel/belly during the ‘swing-forward’ phase, and also so to be able change directions instantly (which is also why the hind hooves are oval; breakover easier on any direction, where the front hooves are more rounded.) Look at any straight on galloping horse, and you’ll see what I mean.
Secretariat had extremely straight (open) angles in his hind, as viewed from the side.
[QUOTE=Howlin’Wolf;8114801]
.[/QUOTE]
IIRC, that is exactly what she did in the article. There was a head-on shot of Secretariat, clearly showing him tracking straight. Damn, I’ll definitely have to put some effort into finding that article tonight. I know I kept it, because it was so interesting.
(oh, and by the by-- I LOFF John Oliver!) 
OK, until I can find the actual article, here is a bulletin board post on Dr. Bennett’s website, touching on the subject: http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=1641&forum_id=1&highlight=secretariat
Have a look at Ribot’s stride and note his unusual -both hind legs together- stride akin to a hare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVebD3vLFjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEGD0KY2z0
Managed to win a few races in his day…
[QUOTE=Real Rush;8115946]
IIRC, that is exactly what she did in the article. There was a head-on shot of Secretariat, clearly showing him tracking straight. Damn, I’ll definitely have to put some effort into finding that article tonight. I know I kept it, because it was so interesting.
(oh, and by the by-- I LOFF John Oliver!) :D[/QUOTE]
Now that I think about it, you’re completely right - for some reason my mind was fixated on the hind legs’ swing phase, whereas it does what I describe. You are referring to the stance phase, which he did track straight.
footfall converging on the centerline is nothing new: it is a basic efficiency of gait for all animals as speed increases (in a straight line forwards).
You can read it in any gait analysis of normally conformed dog breeds since 1900, for instance.
Lots of interesting theories about measurements and angles. I’m on the mailing list for this link. It always has interesting stuff. I think they have a newsletter for just about every discipline but don’t hold me to that. See the article “upper limb length - built for speed.”
http://www.kohnkesown.com/racing17.pdf
I’ve always been poor at geometry. I like the linear measurements better. Some years ago I came across a research study involving racehorse stretching exercises and improved range of motion. A no brainer there. I won’t post the link because it was 134 pages long.
I found an old PDF file where I sent a friend a copy of the article back when it first came out, but it’s a poor quality scan. Still no luck on finding the original, but haven’t had time to really do an in-depth search for it. However, both in the Equus article and in the link I provided earlier, Dr Bennett explains that Secretariat had a very rare way of galloping. Dogs, cats and most horses etc use a 5 beat gallop (run) called a single-suspension transverse gallop, a rotatory movement. Secretariat and other “exceptional racehorses” had a 6 beat gallop called a “double-suspension gallop which, however, is still transverse rather than rotatory”. Quote from article: “Secretariat ran straight, a fact proven by film study. Straightness during the gallop is an important advantage almost as rare among racehorses as the ability to produce a double-suspension transverse gallop.”
To help give a visual idea of the differences, here’s one of the pages from the Equus article. (apologies in advance for the quality) 
And for visual idea of running straight (again, apologies): 
Since I’ve found the PDF file, if anyone would like a copy via email, feel free to PM your email and I will happily share it…
The double suspension gallop can be seen in slow/ stop motion pics of many racehorses in sprints to the finish line. And has been seen there since the 60’s? when cameras were fast enough to catch it.
And being a sighthound owner, I can definitely tell you they have ‘6 beat’ double suspension gallops (rotary, not transverse).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc8Hno4M0Qs
i have no idea if it is relevant to horses, but human speed is dependent on ground strike force (why strength training helps runners) and faster stride rate (turnover or strides per minute) more so than stride length.
I would think a long stride in a horse would indicate more ground strike force (power).
This slow motion running horse shows footfall convergence to the straight line but not quite the ‘6 beat’ double suspension of all-out sprinting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scZbaTTAbCM
[QUOTE=Sunflower;8113063]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXzBgVUdLkg
While browsing the CC training at Newmarket video, I came across one at the link above that says there is a correlation between stride angle and performance for both horses and humans, and uses CC and other race horses to demonstrate stride angle.
Interesting, anyway. I have never heard of this before, and would be interested in what other people think.[/QUOTE]
Note that they used slightly different phases of the stride when measuring their individual horse’s angles, so that throws the whole ‘study’ into the round bin file…
Another reason Secretariat was so good was because he had an efficient stride. He had little up and down motion (see Skip Away!) with his legs moving similar to a bicycle wheel. There was a whole article about it somewhere, maybe it can still be found on the web. I have picked winners of regular races by picking the closing horse with the best economy of motion. Course a horse can also move badly and still be very fast.
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