I had to look up some of the breeds mentioned in the favorite breed thread. I saw that two of them are relatively new. So when does a breed become a legitimate breed?
Depends on what you are considering the arbiter of dog breeds 
For the American Kennel Club (AKC) the process of becoming a new, recognized breed is fairly extensiveâŠ
AKC Foundation Stock Service
Breeds that wish to begin the road to full AKC recognition must be recorded with an accepted registry (maintained by the national breed club or the optional AKC Foundation Stock Service). The AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS) is the AKCâs recording service for purebred breeds that are not yet eligible for AKC registration. Currently, there are 65 breeds in the FSS, but acceptance into the program does not ultimately guarantee full AKC registration.
To be considered for listing as an FSS breed, the Breed Club must send in a written request, along with additional documentation such as a written history and a written breed standard. Photographs are also required at the time of application. Once all information is presented to the Staff Executive Committee, a decision is made to allow or deny each request.
Miscellaneous Class
The recognition process begins with a written request to compete in the Miscellaneous Class from the National Breed Club. To be eligible for consideration to become an AKC recognized breed, the following general criteria must be met: [LIST=1]
Moving from Miscellaneous Class to Full AKC Registration
While there is no established âquotaâ or timetable for adding new breeds, dogs typically compete in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years. At the end of the first year, AKC contacts the National Breed Club for updates on the number of dogs and litters recorded, and the number of dogs who have entered events since being eligible to compete in the Miscellaneous Class. Finally, the club must have held matches, local and national breed specialty shows, judgesâ workshops and breed seminars.
When all criteria are met, the information is presented to the Board of Directors for full recognition.
Two of the breeds formerly in the Miscellaneous Class were the Barbet and the Dogo Argentino. Both were just recently accepted as an AKC-Recognized Breeds.
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Yes, basically a club must be formed that agrees on a standard and breeds specifically for that standard.
Most breeds being admitted into AKC have been around for a long time, but for AKC admittance there is a requirement for a # of dogs and members before they will admit the breed.
So, for example, the Barbet was recognized by AKC this year but has been around and specifically bred for hundreds of years. But was not popular enough in the US (and/or possibly there was no interest by the breed club until then) for AKC admittance.
Just to add - as WMW states - AKC is not the arbiter of all breeds. There are other kennel clubs/registries, and some breeds maintain their own registry.
In a previous thread there was discussion about the CKC - Continental Kennel Club. This kennel club allows for open registration - meaning that they will register a dog as purebred if there are 2 witnesses that attest to the breeding and submit 5 photos of the dog and it looks âclose enough.â
I have a lot of problems with a registry that will do that. You canât just join a purebred registry, in my opinion, no matter what the dog LOOKS like. And yeah, finding 2 people to sign a form that the breeding was from purebred breeding. Not hard. And not possible to prove/disprove anyway unless the dogs are otherwise registered as purebreds of a different breed. (And even then, who knows? Who investigates? Who cares?)
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So a breed doesnât need to be a part of the AKC or similar, but should at minimum keep their own registries? How many generations until people accept that the dog is a breed usually despite not being recognized for whatever reason?
The kennel clubs that are open sound a bit fishy. Thatâs a lot of leeway to claim purebred status.
This is, IMO, purely subjective⊠look at the current trends in dogs like the Goldendoodle⊠some would consider that cross a âbreedâ today while others will not. Just one example. But, to become an âofficialâ recognized breed with AKC, then the process above needs to be followed. Some group of people would need to be driving that bus
What I do like with AKC is that you can have a dog that appears to be a purebred breed (in my case, a Border Terrier) which can be registered with AKC as a Purebred Alternate Listing (photos required) if accepted. Dog must be neutered and cannot participate in conformation but the performance sports will recognize PAL dogs. My one BT is a PAL dog.
As well, you can have a âmuttâ of unknown heritage and it can compete in the performance sports (if the trial allows) as an All American Dog (neutered). I see a few of these in our local scent work trials.
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Yes. Itâs not just conformation that is limited, though. They cannot participate in Field Trials either - or, in general, sports that confer a âchampionshipâ title to the front of the dogâs name (meaning they win in direct competition with other dogs, not against a standard). Only registered purebred dogs can be a show or field champion. I imagine there are some other activities that are restricted but those are the ones that apply in my breed.
I donât think there is any particular rule. Some parent clubs donât want to join AKC and maintain their own registry for specific reasons. There are a few breeds that have essentially split because of the desire by some and not others to join AKC.
Maintaining a registry is hard, though, especially as breeds become more popular. For rare breeds it might be possible to have a simple database to manage it, but for popular breeds that have been around for a long timeâŠthatâs a lot of work for a parent club.
To add to the above, the short answer to the original question, independent of whether the breed is accepted by the AKC, is that the physical characteristics of the breed have to be consistently reproducible across generations whenever 2 animals of the same breed are bred together. These traits can then be codified into a standard. Breed clubs are responsible for defining the standard for their breed - this is what the AKC uses to train judges for conformation shows. The purpose of conformation shows is to evaluate breeding stock.
Breed standards are pretty specific - some include things like min/max allowable heights. Some breeds allow different sub-types (sorry if this language is incorrect, I donât really know anything about this) like different coat types (short, long, wire) in dachshunds, and others not, like vizslas. The wirehaired vizsla (which was also a recent addition to the AKC breeds list) was developed from the vizsla by adding other breeds. It is not a sub-type, it is a separate breed with its own club and separate standard.
Re: Doodles, I think most of what you see are F1 crosses, and as I understand it, consistent heritability of traits past F1 has been a problem. Australian Labradoodles (AL) specifically are an effort to mix in other breeds and do continuous multi-generational breeding to improve the reproducibility of traits and establish a true breed. I think the club developing the breed decides when they have achieved a sufficiently reproducible standard. After they start getting the coat and temperament they want, the AL clubs may start narrowing their standard - e.g. formally separate height groupings into sub-types or separate breeds, maybe restrict coat colors or types, and define more specific conformational characteristics.
@S1969, AKC recognized coursing titles are limited to sighthound breeds, though there is also a Coursing Ability Test (CAT) open to all breeds.
They are called varieties - and you are right that some breeds that look similar are not varieties of each other. So Dachshunds have two varieties of size (standard and mini) and 3 varieties of coat (smooth, long, wire). But otherwise the standard is the same - the proportions, head shape, angulation, etc. are identical, even across the two different sizes.
In the Viszla breeds, there are other distinct differences in the conformation of the breed, so they are separate breeds.
For some reason, some breed varieties are shown separately in the group ring - I am not sure why. E.g. Cocker Spaniels will always have 3 varieties represented in the Sporting Group, even though the only difference in the variety is coat color. But Labrador Retrievers will send only 1 to the group, even though they can be differentiated by color (and sometimes are shown that way at very large shows).
Iâve never really understood that.
@S1969, I wonder how much of the decision to split into varieties (thanks) is just a matter of convention within the breed. Iâve heard, for example, that lab people arenât too particular about breeding litters of homogeneous color, but with a little googling, it sounds like dachshund breeders tend towards breeding homozygous coats, even though they donât have to. Maybe conventions for breeding cocker colors are similar, since black is dominant, and (I assume) parti requires modifiers on top of a base color. Shot in the dark on my end.
@S1969 thanks on the additional info about PAL not being eligible for field titles that confer champion and does make sense.
When I was having issues, shall we say, with my first BTâs breeder getting his litter registration to me, I learned about the PAL registration. I knew I would only be doing performance work (at the time possibly earthdog as well) so PAL worked fine. His confo isnât the best but his nose works just fine I read the fine print about PAL registration just far enough to see that I could do rally or earthdog (as scentwork wasnât a âthingâ back then) so I was good with PAL and Iâve had no desire to go outside the performance arena.
Thanks everyone for the education! Yes, I guess I donât understand how a breed could be a breed by combining two recognized breeds or a breed combined with not yet a recognized breed.
Well, thatâs how all breeds were created. Someone (or usually several someones) thought - this breed is perfect for what we want exceptâŠ.and then started to determine how to get to what they wanted. Or, for the older breeds, probably there were a variety of similar thoughts and they eventually converged to a group of fanciersâŠand then eventually started separating out breeding lines. E.g. so many types of spaniels, but eventually fanciers/hunters/owners started breeding specific blood lines to capitalize on exceptional traits.
I think some of the newer breeds -e.g. Miniature American Shepherds - are a combination of several groups of fanciers/breeders that had similar thoughts. They have only been around since the 1960s.
Somewhere they have to have an agreement on what the breed should be like (looks, temperament, size, ability) and then start selecting for those traits so that each generation is more and more predictable. Thatâs usually when a club is formed.
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@S1969 I realize thatâs how new breeds start, itâs more my confusion with calling something a breed when only F1s are being bred. How can that be a breed?
Itâs not if that is all they are doing. Thatâs just cross-breeding.
Thatâs why AKC doesnât recognize most of the designer âbreedsâ because they lack a standard, a parent club, and a closed stud book (which means they no longer cross-breed - the breed is established.)
A âbreederâ can call a Goldendoodle a âbreedâ but it doesnât make it a breed recognized by anyone else.
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Which then led to my question of how many generations of breeding, ie Goldendoodle to Goldendoodle is generally accepted to call it a breed. Recognized by the AKC or not.
Is it correct to assume that breeders always form a club?
And sadly yes thatâs what people are doing. Calling F1s a breed and in some cases a dog is ONLY that breed as an F1.
Well I believe a breed must have a closed stud book for AKC recognition. Iâm not sure how many generations that requires (if there is a rule) but essentially the parent club decides that there is a large enough pool of correct dogs that are not too closely related to form a breeding pool and call it âclosedâ - and then no longer allow anything but the offspring of those registered dogs. That could (and probably does) take decades or more, depending on how popular the dogs are.
The thing about clubs is that they tend to be represented only by a fraction of people that breed the dogs. Lots of breeders donât really care about the standard or titles, etc. Some of those people could still be good breeders - e.g. some of the breeds that didnât want to join AKC (e.g. Border Collies) was because they believed the working ability should be more important than anything else - color, conformation, etc.
Then there is a huge number of breeders that donât care about any of it - including the inherited health issues. 
Or, develop their own âvarietiesâ because people like them, not because the parent club wants them â âsilverâ labs, giant Malamutes, etc.
So most established breeds have a parent club, but many breeders are not members and do not follow the breeding guidelines, or Code of Ethics, etc.
Sadly, most buyers donât understand standards, parent clubs, and health issues. So they are usually the ones that end up with problems when they buy a puppy that isnât what they expected, for one reason or another.
Thank you for the education. Finding a breed or almost breed from a good breeder seems more daunting than buying a horse!
The new breeds just got me curious. I canât really wrap my head around dogs being considered breeds in what I perceive as a short amount of time.
I was also curious about the question of how many generations it takes to develop a dog breed, so started googling. Here is a nice article about the development of the Dogo Argentino, just recognized by the AKC: https://www.saexpeditions.com/blog/post/south-american-dog-breeds-dogo-argentino
It took 25 generations and over 50 years to develop the Dogo Argentino. The article I link to below says it takes 30-50 years to establish a gene pool that will start to breed true, and then it takes 3 generations of breeding true to be able to say you have succeeded at establishing a new breed: https://breedingbusiness.com/create-new-dog-breed/
