Spinoff- Controversy of Redwine affect the value of his offspring?

[vandenbrink]

[QUOTE=3Dogs;6105803]
time will tell. Foals need to grow up to be talented horses.

Pretty is as pretty does[/QUOTE]

There are some offspring under saddle now and the one I have is fantastic.

I have a coming 4 year old from Redwine’s first foal crop in North America. Yes…she sure is pretty, but she is a real athlete as well. Big elastic gaits, huge ring presence, stunning good looks, fabulous conformation, nice quality scopey jump.

She’s very special mare. Right now she’s enjoying a short break at home. She gets time off, and I get to appreciate her good looks:) We all love a pretty horse.

[EquineLVR]

I have not had any issues either - I have an in-utero coming this year. However mine is a Romantic Star foal.

What I have seen of Redwine he stamps his foals - they all seem to be lovely movers, nice temperarments and can jump. Nice long necks, short backs and pretty faces.

I know there are some going now and they seem to be doing very well… All in all a a very nice Hunter stallion.

I would take one in a second in if I had more money and time… Maybe next year.

He has had foals due very well on the line which seems to indicate that there will be some very nice ones out there.

I dont know that I agree there are a LOT - Jill breeds him quite often to her mares probably due to the EVA issue.

Time will tell but I have a good feeling about him.

[Breaking_News]

Babies

Our 4 year old Redwine babies move like the wind. Will jump anything-sometimes by themselves, they do not spook, loves to go to the ring. They are smart, versatile, handsome and a pleasure and joy to be their owner.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;6107763]
I have not had any issues either - I have an in-utero coming this year. However mine is a Romantic Star foal.

What I have seen of Redwine he stamps his foals - they all seem to be lovely movers, nice temperarments and can jump. Nice long necks, short backs and pretty faces.

I know there are some going now and they seem to be doing very well… All in all a a very nice Hunter stallion.

I would take one in a second in if I had more money and time… Maybe next year.

He has had foals due very well on the line which seems to indicate that there will be some very nice ones out there.

I dont know that I agree there are a LOT - Jill breeds him quite often to her mares probably due to the EVA issue.

Time will tell but I have a good feeling about him.[/QUOTE]

Well, I think “a lot” in comparison to the typical number of foals available from a N. American stallion. It isn’t a criticism; I just know that if you want to sell a youngster before it is under saddle that sometimes it helps if there aren’t as many with the same breeding available. Supply and demand, etc. Just a quick search of one sales site shows over a dozen available, w/widely ranging prices. It also looks like Jill has 11 or so babies of his for sale in addition to offering 16 in-utero for 2012. It isn’t criticism; I don’t have strong feelings one way or the other about the horse. I think he is gorgeous, but I don’t do hunters, so it doesn’t really apply to me :)!

[Bayhawk]

Just curious…what is the controversy ?

[Daventry]

How much time do you have? Both of these threads are entirely about Jill Burnell from Gray Fox Farms. Allegedly, she has just been charged with four counts of felony fraud for writing bad cheques. Unfortunately, as long as people continue to support her business, breed to her stallions and purchase horses from her…the longer she’s going to stay in business and continue to do this to others.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310480

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332329

[Daventry]

@EquineLVR;6107763

I have not had any issues either - I have an in-utero coming this year. However mine is a Romantic Star foal.

There are so many threads on the COTH telling stories of how untrustworthy this Stallion Owner is/can be. If, a year from now, you find you can’t get registration papers for your foal, can’t attend an inspection…or some other catastrophe happens due to to the actions of this less than honest Stallion Owner, you completely forfeit all rights to come back on the COTH next year and b!tch about it! ;):lol:

[SilverBalls]

A nice horse is a nice horse regardless…:yes: But I did see Redwine perform, and my only question/reservation would be his step. He did have to rush to get down the lines, and he did look worried in my opinion. But as many of you say, the mare brings alot to the breeding shed.

Jill Burnell’s reputation speaks for itself :eek:

[dianehalpin]

http://www.washcova.com/government/constitutionaloffices/sheriffs-office/active-warrants

[magicteetango]

Do I think it will effect the value of his foals? No, like SilverBalls said a good horse is a good horse. But I would never breed to one of her stallions, or buy a foal that had not already been inspected. I could also not see myself buying one from Jill, I do not want to do business with her directly. It is a shame, I am a fan of Romantic Star but I could always buy one from someone who bred to him and all the foal registration and inspection is done.

[3Dogs]

Bill -SB - I too watched Redwine perform -

First - to all who have wonderful offspring - fantastic! I believe a great mare is the key. and congratulations!

Second - What I saw showing was a dressage moving horse with a limited jump - and don’t go down the road of all who are owed money for the brief show time - He is after all primarily a dressage horse that was for sale for a year in Europe. Shoot me - circle the wagons -

Be that as it may - since hunter breeding is a GIANT black box ( notice in the year end award COTH issue we got the breeding of top jumpers and top eventers - but other than Dedication’s breeding- nada for the hunters) - who really knows??

So for all with super offspring - proves to me you have fabulous mares - and that is what it is all about!

[Breaking_News]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6108365]
A nice horse is a nice horse regardless…:yes: But I did see Redwine perform, and my only question/reservation would be his step. He did have to rush to get down the lines, and he did look worried in my opinion. But as many of you say, the mare brings alot to the breeding shed.

That’s what breeding is all about. Taking strengths from both and hope they put together a nice horse. You hope that the combination doesn’t come up with the weaknesses of both.

So far no trouble at all with getting down any lines at any time. Came from the mare? Who knows. The youngsters cover the ground effortlessly.

[SilverBalls]

[QUOTE=Breaking_News;6108750]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6108365]A nice horse is a nice horse regardless…:yes: But I did see Redwine perform, and my only question/reservation would be his step. He did have to rush to get down the lines, and he did look worried in my opinion. But as many of you say, the mare brings alot to the breeding shed.

That’s what breeding is all about. Taking strengths from both and hope they put together a nice horse. You hope that the combination doesn’t come up with the weaknesses of both.

So far no trouble at all with getting down any lines at any time. Came from the mare? Who knows. The youngsters cover the ground effortlessly.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear ~ glad something positive is coming out of the the whole Redwine saga.

[Breaking_News]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6108779]

[QUOTE=Breaking_News;6108750]

Good to hear ~ glad something positive is coming out of the the whole Redwine saga. :D[/QUOTE]
Me too! Let’s hope all the youngsters go to good homes, perform well and meet up in the show ring at some point in time! Still bred in America and we need to give them all the best chance to succeed and beat the imports.

[vandenbrink]

In 2007 I bought a very special broodmaremare. It was already the middle of the summer and needed to make a stallion match for her ASAP…time was ticking. It didn’t take me long to choose Redwine. I didn’t know much about Gray Fox farm, but liked the horse, thought physically they were a good match, liked the pedigree and fully expected Redwine to be a stallion that would get a lot of publicity, which should get interest in my first foal from this new mare. This is not the kind of publicity I was expecting:lol:

Like the others said…to breed a good horse you need to make a smart breeding match and you MUST have a good mare. I can see the Redwine in her but unlike many Redwines she takes mostly after her mom. As for the service…I had no problems with papers and had no trouble getting semen when needed.

I can’t see how this will decrease the value of the offspring. A good horse is a good horse.

[koppem10]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;6107763]

Time will tell but I have a good feeling about him.[/QUOTE]
^:yes: agreed.

I personally have a 2011 colt by Redwine and he continues to impress me on a daily basis. He is an amazing mover, has one heck of a personality, and is up for anything and everything. He is honestly quieter than my ex-children’s hunter… and not to mention he is drop dead gorgeous (may be a tad biased tho) :lol:

IMO Redwine’s crop keeps getting nicer and nicer. I cant wait to see his babies in the future and the performance horses that will be seen shortly.

Jill has always been wonderful to work with and has eased every concern I had about getting him. She insured me that what I paid for I was getting and that surly happened. A quiet “freak of a mover” (as she put it) beautiful big black colt.

We all have to remember what she has to deal with on a daily basis— 4 stallions? THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE to deal with non-stop, and she has a lot of mares herself making it more crazy not only having to worry about other people’s mares taking but her own as well… since breeding her own is half of her business.

I suggest Redwine to everyone because he truly is everything you would want in a hunter stallion and seeing what I have now, I would certainly keep buying more and more from her too

[ise]

koppem10.
I believe she assured you - not insured you.
And please explain how this stallion owner has THOUSANDS of people to deal with non-stop?? OK - she has 4 stallions but I think you are stretching it abit on the estimate of the people she deals with.
People I know have not had a good experience working with this stallion owner - so I won’t even consider her stallions.

[TrueColours]

And please explain how this stallion owner has THOUSANDS of people to deal with non-stop?? OK - she has 4 stallions but I think you are stretching it abit on the estimate of the people she deals with.

Actually - its quite immaterial if she has dozens, hundreds or thousands of people to deal with. She has decided - for herself - that she is in a “Service Industry” and part and parcel of being in that industry means that you have to provide actual “service” to clients that have put down their money to avail themselves of your “service” and if you cant do that or have failed to do that, you need to a) get some help in that allows you to look after every paying customer correctly or b) downsize until you CAN manage what you have on your plate on a daily basis. Otherwise instead of doing everything very very well, you end up doing a whole bunch of things in a very half assed manner and piss dozens / hundreds / thousands of people off in your wake …

I also believe that while some/many/all buyers/Mare Owners may well stop dealing with Jill directly because it simply isnt worth the hassle and uncertainty anymore, if a client has a Redwine / Aloha / Federalist / Romantic Star youngster on the ground, with the proper registrations ALREADY IN PLACE, then the buyer will simply judge the animal in front of them and decide if it does meet their needs or not

I also heard that his step was limited and I think matching him with the right mare is key. I will say that the 2010 filly we produced by Redwine out of my homebred Faux Finish mare is an absolute freak of a good mover and she very much takes after the dam line moreso than Redwine according to everyone that has seen her in person. At her Old NA inspection she received terrific marks for movement and the inspectors went up to her owner afterwards to comment on her movement, type and conformation - especially as she was out of a TB mare and they werent expecting her to be as nice as she was

At Hilltop and DAD, the Hilltop handlers were running flat out to keep up with her - she has such a long reach and long stride … and those boys can RUN!!! :lol:

I think buyers are going to ask “extra” questions of sellers selling GFF stallions youngsters, as in “Can you please SHOW me or PROVE to me that this youngster actually HAS papers before I go any further” but that is to be expected …

Its a shame really. There was someone that had the world by the veritable balls and now appears to be clutching no more than a few pubic hairs at best …

[Breaking_News]

So far everyone I’ve heard from with a Redwine foal has stride and movement. Mare’s help? Yes. Stallions help? I would assume from all the feedback he passes some movement along. I don’t think his genetic makeup is limited to stunning looks and great attitude. I’d like to think it was all the mares doing but percentages say it was the stallion too. Yes both mine have some TB blood–my preference anyways but the market dictates. So go with a great cross.

[SilverBalls]

“BreakingNews Me too! Let’s hope all the youngsters go to good homes, perform well and meet up in the show ring at some point in time! Still bred in America and we need to give them all the best chance to succeed and beat the imports.”

:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes: