Spinoff- Controversy of Redwine affect the value of his offspring?

[SilverBalls]

[QUOTE=Breaking_News;6108750]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6108365]A nice horse is a nice horse regardless…:yes: But I did see Redwine perform, and my only question/reservation would be his step. He did have to rush to get down the lines, and he did look worried in my opinion. But as many of you say, the mare brings alot to the breeding shed.

That’s what breeding is all about. Taking strengths from both and hope they put together a nice horse. You hope that the combination doesn’t come up with the weaknesses of both.

So far no trouble at all with getting down any lines at any time. Came from the mare? Who knows. The youngsters cover the ground effortlessly.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear ~ glad something positive is coming out of the the whole Redwine saga.

[Breaking_News]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6108779]

[QUOTE=Breaking_News;6108750]

Good to hear ~ glad something positive is coming out of the the whole Redwine saga. :D[/QUOTE]
Me too! Let’s hope all the youngsters go to good homes, perform well and meet up in the show ring at some point in time! Still bred in America and we need to give them all the best chance to succeed and beat the imports.

[vandenbrink]

In 2007 I bought a very special broodmaremare. It was already the middle of the summer and needed to make a stallion match for her ASAP…time was ticking. It didn’t take me long to choose Redwine. I didn’t know much about Gray Fox farm, but liked the horse, thought physically they were a good match, liked the pedigree and fully expected Redwine to be a stallion that would get a lot of publicity, which should get interest in my first foal from this new mare. This is not the kind of publicity I was expecting:lol:

Like the others said…to breed a good horse you need to make a smart breeding match and you MUST have a good mare. I can see the Redwine in her but unlike many Redwines she takes mostly after her mom. As for the service…I had no problems with papers and had no trouble getting semen when needed.

I can’t see how this will decrease the value of the offspring. A good horse is a good horse.

[koppem10]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;6107763]

Time will tell but I have a good feeling about him.[/QUOTE]
^:yes: agreed.

I personally have a 2011 colt by Redwine and he continues to impress me on a daily basis. He is an amazing mover, has one heck of a personality, and is up for anything and everything. He is honestly quieter than my ex-children’s hunter… and not to mention he is drop dead gorgeous (may be a tad biased tho) :lol:

IMO Redwine’s crop keeps getting nicer and nicer. I cant wait to see his babies in the future and the performance horses that will be seen shortly.

Jill has always been wonderful to work with and has eased every concern I had about getting him. She insured me that what I paid for I was getting and that surly happened. A quiet “freak of a mover” (as she put it) beautiful big black colt.

We all have to remember what she has to deal with on a daily basis— 4 stallions? THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE to deal with non-stop, and she has a lot of mares herself making it more crazy not only having to worry about other people’s mares taking but her own as well… since breeding her own is half of her business.

I suggest Redwine to everyone because he truly is everything you would want in a hunter stallion and seeing what I have now, I would certainly keep buying more and more from her too

[ise]

koppem10.
I believe she assured you - not insured you.
And please explain how this stallion owner has THOUSANDS of people to deal with non-stop?? OK - she has 4 stallions but I think you are stretching it abit on the estimate of the people she deals with.
People I know have not had a good experience working with this stallion owner - so I won’t even consider her stallions.

[TrueColours]

And please explain how this stallion owner has THOUSANDS of people to deal with non-stop?? OK - she has 4 stallions but I think you are stretching it abit on the estimate of the people she deals with.

Actually - its quite immaterial if she has dozens, hundreds or thousands of people to deal with. She has decided - for herself - that she is in a “Service Industry” and part and parcel of being in that industry means that you have to provide actual “service” to clients that have put down their money to avail themselves of your “service” and if you cant do that or have failed to do that, you need to a) get some help in that allows you to look after every paying customer correctly or b) downsize until you CAN manage what you have on your plate on a daily basis. Otherwise instead of doing everything very very well, you end up doing a whole bunch of things in a very half assed manner and piss dozens / hundreds / thousands of people off in your wake …

I also believe that while some/many/all buyers/Mare Owners may well stop dealing with Jill directly because it simply isnt worth the hassle and uncertainty anymore, if a client has a Redwine / Aloha / Federalist / Romantic Star youngster on the ground, with the proper registrations ALREADY IN PLACE, then the buyer will simply judge the animal in front of them and decide if it does meet their needs or not

I also heard that his step was limited and I think matching him with the right mare is key. I will say that the 2010 filly we produced by Redwine out of my homebred Faux Finish mare is an absolute freak of a good mover and she very much takes after the dam line moreso than Redwine according to everyone that has seen her in person. At her Old NA inspection she received terrific marks for movement and the inspectors went up to her owner afterwards to comment on her movement, type and conformation - especially as she was out of a TB mare and they werent expecting her to be as nice as she was

At Hilltop and DAD, the Hilltop handlers were running flat out to keep up with her - she has such a long reach and long stride … and those boys can RUN!!! :lol:

I think buyers are going to ask “extra” questions of sellers selling GFF stallions youngsters, as in “Can you please SHOW me or PROVE to me that this youngster actually HAS papers before I go any further” but that is to be expected …

Its a shame really. There was someone that had the world by the veritable balls and now appears to be clutching no more than a few pubic hairs at best …

[Breaking_News]

So far everyone I’ve heard from with a Redwine foal has stride and movement. Mare’s help? Yes. Stallions help? I would assume from all the feedback he passes some movement along. I don’t think his genetic makeup is limited to stunning looks and great attitude. I’d like to think it was all the mares doing but percentages say it was the stallion too. Yes both mine have some TB blood–my preference anyways but the market dictates. So go with a great cross.

[SilverBalls]

“BreakingNews Me too! Let’s hope all the youngsters go to good homes, perform well and meet up in the show ring at some point in time! Still bred in America and we need to give them all the best chance to succeed and beat the imports.”

:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

[Rhyadawn]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;6109457]
I think buyers are going to ask “extra” questions of sellers selling GFF stallions youngsters, as in “Can you please SHOW me or PROVE to me that this youngster actually HAS papers before I go any further” but that is to be expected …

Its a shame really. There was someone that had the world by the veritable balls and now appears to be clutching no more than a few pubic hairs at best …[/QUOTE]

This ^^ I would not hesitate to purchase a Redwine OR Romantic Star youngster, provided I could see the registration papers before I went through with the purchase. I think there are a lot of lovely young horses out there from her stallions and that there will be more over the coming years.

And yes… it is a terrible shame…

[Laurierace]

Not that I have any problem with asking to see the registration papers but wouldn’t seeing the brand in the pictures assure you the foal was registered?

[S_A_McKee]

[QUOTE=SilverBalls;6109508]
“BreakingNews Me too! Let’s hope all the youngsters go to good homes, perform well and meet up in the show ring at some point in time! Still bred in America and we need to give them all the best chance to succeed and beat the imports.”

:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:[/QUOTE]

Yes,
And if any of them do well in performance classes nobody who buys for a show horse will care about papers.

And by the way, this thread is giving Jill a LOT of publicity
Is that what the OP intended?

[SilverBalls]

[QUOTE=S A McKee;6109632]
Yes,
And if any of them do well in performance classes nobody who buys for a show horse will care about papers.

And by the way, this thread is giving Jill a LOT of publicity
Is that what the OP intended?[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing, but at this point all the publicity is :eek:
And when a stallion owner offers such “deals” to breed to a stallion… and there are so many progeny out there… the market is flooded.

How do you actually know if you got the right semen when a stallion owner has multiple stallions… could there be a mix up??? Does anyone test DNA??? Just saying…

[Breaking_News]

When I buy a horse that is performing well I have never cared about registration papers. Heck I don’t care about any “license plate” it comes with. Show me the performance. Next most important thing–prepurchase exam. After that I don’t care. It’s what it can do not where it came from. Albeit I’m partial to “American bred” and will look for that if it’s between two similar horses with similar records. I’ve already taken a youngster, American bred from the line to Zone Champion in the working. I didn’t care what he was–he was special and born right here. Perhaps if I were looking at stallions or broodmares it would be an issue but not for performance.

[ise]

Well one very glaring benefit of having registration papers is that the ownership of the horse/pony can be tracked. It does happen in this industry that people find out a horse they purchased without papers may actually have a previous owner who never signed over ownership.

[Equilibrium]

Breaking News, bad place to be on about pedigree being unimportant. I too care about performance, but to me I hate not knowing what’s behind the performance. As a breeder that makes me think you actually think that it’s all down to a rider how well the horse turns out. It couldn’t possibly be because a breeder did a good job in picking a stallion and mare and raising that baby to be able to be an athlete.

Geldings, who cares right? I’ll tell you who cares, the breeder trying to establish an American bred dam line that’s who. The breeder that might have another good gelding to sell. But said breeder can’t find out any performance on her horse because it has a new identity as papers don’t matter. While you don’t care, it can make a horse slightly more valuable when siblings are out doing the business.

I agree I want performance too. I’m trying to make my own performance lines. And over here people do care what’s on the paper even for geldings. They see the performance, want to know by and out of what and where they can go to get a younger sibling. Go to any show here and the first question is breeding. Not nice mare, great rider.

Sorry to derail, but it’s like nails on a chalkboard.

As far as Redwine, he’s a nice boy who will get pretty and saleable stock. I’m sure he will have nice hunter babies. He’s not my cup of tea. I would also think about this woman every time I viewed one of his horses. I just would. She’s put too many people through the ringer. Not saying I wouldn’t buy but I’d think about it a little.

With one notable exception, I love Juliet, Laurie’s filly!

Terri

[S_A_McKee]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6110183]
Well one very glaring benefit of having registration papers is that the ownership of the horse/pony can be tracked. It does happen in this industry that people find out a horse they purchased without papers may actually have a previous owner who never signed over ownership.[/QUOTE]

So what.
The bill of sale is what counts. And the performance of the horse.

[koppem10]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6109354]
koppem10.
I believe she assured you - not insured you.
And please explain how this stallion owner has THOUSANDS of people to deal with non-stop?? OK - she has 4 stallions but I think you are stretching it abit on the estimate of the people she deals with.
People I know have not had a good experience working with this stallion owner - so I won’t even consider her stallions.[/QUOTE]

Uhm… woah? Calm down first off- this isnt English class here. It was late and everyone gets the point…

ISE@ssl—Everyone needs to put yourself in her position. Yes, I agree that some of the things that have occured and the stories that I read about her customer service has lacked but no one is in her position but herself.

Since you want me to explain—She gets hundreds of calls… saying “thousands” was just a sarcastic comment saying how she is extremely busy. She has her PAST sales, CURRENT sales, FUTURE sales (inutero, etc) BREEDINGS from all FOUR stallions to her males + all her breedings from other peoples mares last year + vet + farrier + arrangements + all the other connections she has w where her other horses are located. I have personally been around her when visiting my colt last year and trust me---- I’m sure this woman’s phone bill is thru the roof.

Maybe we all wouldn’t have made the same choice as she has but that is not any of our problems, unless directly involved… If you choose not to be involved with her then great for you and good luck with your babies.

[Laurierace]

So many people to screw over, so little time…

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6110408]
So many people to screw over, so little time…[/QUOTE]

:lol:

Yes, I guess that keeps her extremely “busy”.

[Edgewood]

@koppem10;6110403

I agree that some of the things that have occured and the stories that I read about her customer service has lacked but no one is in her position but herself.

Since you want me to explain—She gets hundreds of calls… saying “thousands” was just a sarcastic comment saying how she is extremely busy. She has her PAST sales, CURRENT sales, FUTURE sales (inutero, etc) BREEDINGS from all FOUR stallions to her males + all her breedings from other peoples mares last year + vet + farrier + arrangements + all the other connections she has w where her other horses are located. I have personally been around her when visiting my colt last year and trust me---- I’m sure this woman’s phone bill is thru the roof.

Yes – but there are several other big West Coast stallion stations (ie, Rainbow Equus, Dreamscape) that stand more stallions than GFF and you do not hear bad things about them. GFF has a huge online problem with a bad rap.