I have bought two horses from Jill and a breeding to Redwine for 2012. I have recieved timely and truthful service with all three of these transactions. The horses I bought arrived happy, healthy and well handled. My paperwork returned to me in a very timely manner. My horses are turned out in a mud pit right now. It is winter, pastures are being protected, sacrifice areas being used. It may not be optimal but my horses are healthy and we wait for the summer. Horsekeeping in winter is difficult at best and most horses in my part of the country are confined to stalls with runs. I just don’t see how you can look at those horses for sale on her website and bash her husbandry. Maybe it’s not optimal but that is difficult to achieve this time of year especially. So much of this seems just catty. I feel like I’m in the locker room my freshman year. Oh, the mean girls!
LaurieP, in the interest of accuracy, shortly after purchasing a 50% in Rabbit Ridge from Jill Burnell on 2-1-10 I received a notice sheet from Kathy Gilbertson of IHF stating that $500 was owed on Rabbit Ridge’s IHF nomination. Since I held a bill of sale for Rabbit Ridge stating plainly that Jill was to pay for Rabbit Ridge’s IHF nomination, and that she had sent in the application and the payment as part of the sale to me of a 50% interest, I called Kathy to ask about the $500 owed. She stated that Jill Burnell’s check had bounced. So I immediately sent a check for $500 to Kathy and thus Rabbit Ridge was duly nominated and paid for in IHF. I have the cancelled check notice (of my own check that replaced Jill’s) and the original sheet from Kathy Gilbertson. If Jill paid again in August of 2010 to cover Rabbit Ridge, then she double-paid - and I just don’t believe that happened as Jill Burnell and Kathy Gilbertson had confirmed prior to August that Rabbit Ridge was IHF nominated. Therefore, the “someone” who paid, the “someone” to whom money is owed would be me. I don’t want it but do want the facts spelled out with accuracy. I believe that the confusion was over whether or not REDWINE had been paid in correctly - not Rabbit Ridge.
I agree that RR was probably nominated twice, and that you are the party that is owed a refund for that. I do know it happened, because I know the amount of the wire transfer and it includes Rob’s fee. But Kathy stated that someone paid Redwine’s fee, as well, and that that person would be refunded. Her words.
Rabbit Ridge was not in question, but my conversation with Kathy regarding his payment provided proof to me that she had received the wire.
Good enough!
[QUOTE=fibbermaggee;6125102]
I have bought two horses from Jill and a breeding to Redwine for 2012. I have recieved timely and truthful service with all three of these transactions. The horses I bought arrived happy, healthy and well handled. My paperwork returned to me in a very timely manner. My horses are turned out in a mud pit right now. It is winter, pastures are being protected, sacrifice areas being used. It may not be optimal but my horses are healthy and we wait for the summer. Horsekeeping in winter is difficult at best and most horses in my part of the country are confined to stalls with runs. I just don’t see how you can look at those horses for sale on her website and bash her husbandry. Maybe it’s not optimal but that is difficult to achieve this time of year especially. So much of this seems just catty. I feel like I’m in the locker room my freshman year. Oh, the mean girls![/QUOTE]
the posse 
Three dogs…I do not know what you mean by posse. I do not know Jill personally, I don’t live in the same state. I have only spoken to her on the phone one time several years ago. I am simply posting my experience…just like many others on this thread. The fact that you think I am part of some conspiracy, filled with alters and personal friends just solidifies for me that much of what has been said here must be taken with a very large grain of salt.
[QUOTE=fibbermaggee;6125606]
Three dogs…I do not know what you mean by posse. I do not know Jill personally, I don’t live in the same state. I have only spoken to her on the phone one time several years ago. I am simply posting my experience…just like many others on this thread. The fact that you think I am part of some conspiracy, filled with alters and personal friends just solidifies for me that much of what has been said here must be taken with a very large grain of salt.[/QUOTE]
Fibber I wouldn’t go that far. Most if not all the negative things said are from personal accounts. Same as those defending their personal experiences. I don’t think its a conspiracy one way or the other. More just people very very frustrated and even concerned about some issues at hand.
ljshorses - it’s hard for me to believe you actually read all the posts on this thread or you would have clearly seen there were NUMEROUS attempts to post information that would be informative and helpful relating to in utero nutrition and basic animal husbandry for breeders. So it’s a bit over the top to wave your finger at everyone who posted on here. How much time people have in their lives and how they spend it is pretty much their own choice.
Concern over GFF has been long standing. As a now 26 year breeder I had heard issues that gave me much concern and KNEW people who had problems. I host OLDNA inspections and the issue of a Breeding Certificate for a friend’s foal was the beginning of my awareness of problems. Then more information came to me personally from individuals I know.
Not everyone posting on this thread - was as you indicated “trashing” but were in reality expressing their own experiences and/or concerns. If you are married to an attorney - I’m sure you are aware that people have the right to express their own opinions and share experiences as long as they are not untrue or defaming.
You clearly seem to feel we should all just let the chips fall where they may on this issue but I cannot be concerned that there are clearly in excess of 50 some horses of all ages at GFF and my main concern is their well being. We are seeing tragic situations all over the country involving horses - many of those situations could have been alleviated earlier on if people DID ASK QUESTIONS, SHARE INFORMATION AND SEEK ASSISTANCE FOR THE HORSES INVOLVED.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6126056]
ljshorses - it’s hard for me to believe you actually read all the posts on this thread or you would have clearly seen there were NUMEROUS attempts to post information that would be informative and helpful relating to in utero nutrition and basic animal husbandry for breeders. So it’s a bit over the top to wave your finger at everyone who posted on here. How much time people have in their lives and how they spend it is pretty much their own choice.
Concern over GFF has been long standing. As a now 26 year breeder I had heard issues that gave me much concern and KNEW people who had problems. I host OLDNA inspections and the issue of a Breeding Certificate for a friend’s foal was the beginning of my awareness of problems. Then more information came to me personally from individuals I know.
Not everyone posting on this thread - was as you indicated “trashing” but were in reality expressing their own experiences and/or concerns. If you are married to an attorney - I’m sure you are aware that people have the right to express their own opinions and share experiences as long as they are not untrue or defaming.
You clearly seem to feel we should all just let the chips fall where they may on this issue but I cannot be concerned that there are clearly in excess of 50 some horses of all ages at GFF and my main concern is their well being. We are seeing tragic situations all over the country involving horses - many of those situations could have been alleviated earlier on if people DID ASK QUESTIONS, SHARE INFORMATION AND SEEK ASSISTANCE FOR THE HORSES INVOLVED.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry if the typing of this is less thN PERfect I’m laughing so hard that it’shard to typr…lol
ISE read your post, boy do you fit into the description I portrayed…lol thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Lsjhorses, I don’t see what you think is so funny, but I can tell you what I think is funny – your thinking that if you got good customer service everything is OK with GFF. The world doesn’t revolve around you and others getting stiffed is not OK.
This isn’t about gossip or mean girls – it’s about business transactions involving live animals.
If someone is in over her head she needs to DO something about it. Not get her friends or alters or whatever to make excuses for her while she continues dubious business practices.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;6126585]
Lsjhorses, I don’t see what you think is so funny, but I can tell you what I think is funny – your thinking that if you got good customer service everything is OK with GFF. The world doesn’t revolve around you and others getting stiffed is not OK.
This isn’t about gossip or mean girls – it’s about business transactions involving live animals.
If someone is in over her head she needs to DO something about it. Not get her friends or alters or whatever to make excuses for her while she continues dubious business practices.[/QUOTE]
I’m neither friend or alter and don’t pretend to know the guilt or innocense. I mearly am pointing out the already obvious few who continue to reap enjoyment in bashing others publicly especially when it doesn’t even concern them personally. If you truly are spouting off in order to SAVE others from the misjustice, I am sure there are much better ways to accomplish that means than getting on a forum set up to be an educational format for those in the same bussiness etc… I personally found nothing educational in this thread. There seems to be as many that had great service as those whom did not. If I was into bashing people publicly I could tell you a story about a very prominent stallion owner who screwed over me and several others before they realized the stallion needed to managed by someone else. But I would not accomplish anything about bad mouthing them because I’m sure many had great experiences with said stallion owner so it’s water under the bridge. If you truly care about your fellow breeder and want to support U.S. breds try to find a better way than picking them apart. Contact them directly, let them know how you feel or contact all your “friends” that may want to breed to any of GFF stallions and let them know your thoughts but doing it publicly on this board shows no to little class in my book. Too easy to hide behind your post. I have my sig line in all of mine. I stand by what I say and I am the most honest I can possibly be and try to treat those with respect and I never will get on here and give names of those who wronged me. I would like to think I’m better than that, but those are nothing more than my own opinions and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So if bashing others makes you able to get through the day then by all means have at it. Put please do it elsewhere, I want to learn stallion niches, bloodlines, problem mare issues etc… etc… not that so and so wrote a bad check.
Dearest (and I mean that with the utmost sarcasm), I’m not hiding behind anything. OTOH, supporting someone who rooks other people shows little to no class in my book. How do you think these people stay in business? 1) They have to make SOME people happy and 2) people who speak out against them are bashed for doing so. Do you even realize how hypocritical you’re being?
There’s quite a bit of educational information in this thread – you just don’t want to see it. I guess some people just don’t want to know what they don’t know.
Just my take on this, having followed this thread, and knowing most of the posters here in one way or the other. We can all use what ever self-serving terminology we like, that suits us and our agenda in the moment. Some may call “having the integrity to come forward with information in the hopes of preventing others from having the same bad experience” as “bashing.” It’s all rhetoric, reflecting personal experiences.
I know from experience that “where there’s smoke, there’s fire”. There is too much smoke here to totally ignore. As an interested bystander reading this I am persuaded that there is merit to the criticism here and I am thankful for the information people shared. It makes me better informed BEFORE getting involved, and that is the upside of this forum.
I’ve been reading this thread and am kind of amazed by how much people will speculate on rumors and little or no personal knowledge. I have had no dealings with Gray Fox Farm, but judging by the number of horses she has sold, as well as the breedings of her stallions, I imagine she has a large number of clients. Maybe she got in over her head, I mean in the last couple years the popularity of Redwine seems huge. He’s almost always mentioned on this board for someone looking to breed to a hunter. It would leave a bitter taste in my mouth too if I had a bad dealing with her. A few years ago I bred my mare to a famous stallion who died unexpectedly during the breeding season, and my mare ended up aborting at 7 months. They never returned my phone calls or emails, even though I signed a contract with a LFG. This is a hugely famous breeding farm, and my point is when you have a huge client list you’re going to get some bad dealings. Even from the tone of this thread, I still would not rule out breeding to her stallion or buying a horse from her, just because the sample size of her clients given on this board is so small.
People are so concerned about the care her horses are receiving, stating that people should not support her business. That they just can’t stand by watching her horses suffer. Given by the number of babies she has for sale, I’m sure she has plenty of visitors to her farm. Do you really believe ALL these people would allow these horses to be kept in a situation where they are suffering? I hope not, I know I would make the appropriate calls. Maybe I’m giving too much credit to people.
Instead of scoping out google maps, why don’t you get a plane ticket to CA and go check out her horses. That way maybe you can speed up the closure of her farm, and all the vultures can reap the benefits of her fabulous broodmare herd being sold at discounted prices.
Ditto what ljshorses & veetiepony have said.
I’ve had bad services and had close friends that had bad service and terrible communication from stallions owners that according to this board practically walk on water.
So I take everything on this board with a big block of salt.
I think that sometime we forget that COTH is NOT the center of the universe.
I did go drive by her farm. Your point? I would not say the horses are “suffering” any more than most horses are in CA. Even the “leaving blankets and sheets on horses year round regardless of the temperature” is a CA thing I just don’t understand. Why blanket an unclipped horse at all? And why clip a horse that isn’t showing or in work?
My biggest issue/worry would be that the mares and foals are not being fed and managed properly. Are the mares and foals being supplemented with enough vitamin e and omega 3s along with all the other essential vitamins and minerals that they need given they are standing around on dry lots? To feed a mare/foal correctly when they are not housed and raised in a proper and natural setting is very, very expensive with that many horses. Somehow I think if she is having money problems things like that are slipping.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;6126731]
Dearest (and I mean that with the utmost sarcasm), I’m not hiding behind anything. OTOH, supporting someone who rooks other people shows little to no class in my book. How do you think these people stay in business? 1) They have to make SOME people happy and 2) people who speak out against them are bashed for doing so. Do you even realize how hypocritical you’re being?
Uh dearest, obviously English is not your first language or you may have remembered I am not supporting her in anyway. She may in fact be very guilty of all that was said. I just feel the point was made, put it to rest or actually do something about it but bitching on a public forum solves no issue. I am truly sorry some people have been rooked as you say and I offer my support and help in anyway to them, but in my book, it shows little to no class to sit back and complain and yet not offer help or suggestions to rectify. Because most people that get on here that take enjoyment in bashing really are not the ones that truly care to help they just enjoy bashing.
And Cartier, one well thought out email sent to fellow breeders with their best interest at heart, warning them of what has transpired is a better, more upstanding way to get the word out. To me going on a public board airing someone’s dirty laundry makes me wonder or question the truth in the remarks since I was bashed unfairly on here before and down right lied about. However had you or someone else reached out to me privately to warn me I would of not only believed you or whomever but would of appreciated the heads up. I feel these boards make it too easy to pass judgement on others when it simply is not our place to do so.
There’s quite a bit of educational information in this thread – you just don’t want to see it. I guess some people just don’t want to know what they don’t know.[/QUOTE]
I guess you and I have differing views on what we consider educational. Last I heard, there was no course I could take in school that would teach me to bash my fellow neighbor. Oh wait yes I’m mistaken…I do remember learning this in grade school not a class but certainly seen a lot of catty behavior there, but then I grew up. Now I try hard to see the best in people, even you. I’m sure your heart is in the right place but in this day and age of social networking it is way too easy to write something and send it out over the internet without considering repercussions.
I have no dog in this fight and I don’t support or condemn the person or their actions, I’m just totally sick of seeing the same people over and over again using this board to bitch and making it into a 8 +page thread. I got on this thread not to support the one being bashed, but to say enough is enough. Actions are better than words. If said individual is guilty than it is the authorities to say so not us. If you want to warn, warn privately WITH CLASS, if your pissed because you have been done wrong, then DO SOMETHING about it and feel free to ask for help but privately. I welcome any and all emails, calls, PM’s, etc… and if there is anything I personally can do to help or even if legal advice is sought , I’m sure my husband would offer his help but please think before you write because this is someone’s life you are talking about. Right or wrong it is not our place to publicly try to hurt someone no matter how upset we may be with that person.
[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6127029]
I did go drive by her farm. Your point? I would not say the horses are “suffering” any more than most horses are in CA. Even the “leaving blankets and sheets on horses year round regardless of the temperature” is a CA thing I just don’t understand. Why blanket an unclipped horse at all? And why clip a horse that isn’t showing or in work?
My biggest issue/worry would be that the mares and foals are not being fed and managed properly. Are the mares and foals being supplemented with enough vitamin e and omega 3s along with all the other essential vitamins and minerals that they need given they are standing around on dry lots? To feed a mare/foal correctly when they are not housed and raised in a proper and natural setting is very, very expensive with that many horses. Somehow I think if she is having money problems things like that are slipping.[/QUOTE]
Oh my God, I am so sorry for being guilty too of not letting this go but I just have to comment on the above.
You drove by? Horse sickly, poor condition and instead of you contacting someone to help you make a beeline to post your EXPERT opinions on the horrible situation you witnessed. WOW, such an admirable person you are to take it upon yourself to be all of our eyes for us and let us know the deplorable conditions these horses are in. And really, you went in their feed room and saw she isn’t giving the supplements you give to your horses, oh no!!! Please call the police or better yet if you are so very concerned for their well being then buy her supplements you personally know they need. What on earth is your training that allows you the power to see through blankets and witness the ribs and dull coat? And are you a nutritionist, hmmm? I am a retired biologist with a lot of training in equine nutrition but I certainly never TELL someone what they should or shouldn’t supplement although I may suggest to them privately if they weren’t aware of recent equine nutrition research. And who the hell are you to assume that if she has money problems (do you know this for a fact, maybe she just enjoyed screwing people over for the fun of it, do you know what her bank statements say, hey why don’t you go through her trash? Maybe you could really dig up some dirt on her)that she isn’t feeding her horses properly? I am having money problems right now and my horses don’t lack anything. They are my first priority and I would go without a meal before feeding my horses poorly or not at all and that includes supplements I FEEL they need not what you TELL me to feed thankyou. I’m a big girl and can read the latest journals on nutrition for pregnant mares, thank you.
Again, I apologize but I’m sorry that post IS EXACTLY what I’m talking about geeze get a life and get out of others. Want to do some good then frickin knock on her door and talk to her and see if there is a way to help…leave the drive by’s to the gang members although this certainly has the smell of a gang, where’s the guns??? Oh yea much better to kill someone over the internet…so sad
Perfect pony – a drive by wont answer your questions. My point is that instead of speculating on all the whys, why not visit the farm and ask those questions yourself. Either no one made it their business to do so before, or the issue has been brought up before. If you visit the farm and find the welfare of the horses is extremely compromised, then you might have solid ground for those speculations.
[QUOTE=ljshorses;6127042]
I guess you and I have differing views on what we consider educational. Last I heard, there was no course I could take in school that would teach me to bash my fellow neighbor. Oh wait yes I’m mistaken…I do remember learning this in grade school not a class but certainly seen a lot of catty behavior there, but then I grew up. Now I try hard to see the best in people, even you. I’m sure your heart is in the right place but in this day and age of social networking it is way too easy to write something and send it out over the internet without considering repercussions.
I have no dog in this fight and I don’t support or condemn the person or their actions, I’m just totally sick of seeing the same people over and over again using this board to bitch and making it into a 8 +page thread. I got on this thread not to support the one being bashed, but to say enough is enough. Actions are better than words. If said individual is guilty than it is the authorities to say so not us. If you want to warn, warn privately WITH CLASS, if your pissed because you have been done wrong, then DO SOMETHING about it and feel free to ask for help but privately. I welcome any and all emails, calls, PM’s, etc… and if there is anything I personally can do to help or even if legal advice is sought , I’m sure my husband would offer his help but please think before you write because this is someone’s life you are talking about. Right or wrong it is not our place to publicly try to hurt someone no matter how upset we may be with that person.[/QUOTE]
I so totally agree…so many of these comments can be handled privately. I commend you on your professional remarks and behavior! I also remember the horrible insinuations that you went thru over the loss of your lovely foal. Sometimes people just do not take time to think!
