I use to buy a dozen day old honey dip donuts and split them up between 3 horses. French frys are also good horse food.
I’m suprised she won’t eat apples. 
Boy have we gone off track:lol::lol:
Back to this kicking out of the blue. Both my last two guys, Rio and Shadow came from I can’t say neglect but from total lack of attention, no grooming, no regular foot care, just basically pasture board although Rio was isolated behind a barn in a corner.
Both guys came to me and the very next day i started treating them like I did Strider. In regularly for groom, feet picked, cross tied although both were never cross tied before. I start with the neck, left side and work my way over the body, NOT the stomach but over the sides and back and rump but not too far down the legs, then I do the right side, neck, shoulders , sides and that is when both times the cow kick came. Caught me on the hip both times, both horses. Both got away with it the first time but not the second time. Both cases a quick knee in the ribs, a yelled command and then back to brushing as normal
BOTH horses never kicked again, NEVER and I carry a bale of hay out into the field for my guys, they run along beside me but never do I worry about kicks or biting. It just doesn’t happen. I shake the hay out into the feeder and leave them.
If Rio would get antsy in the croos ties I will knee him, doesn’t have to be hard, just let him know that is not accepted and he stands right up. I have done this twice in the 10 weeks for moving around. Remember it doesn’t have to be hard but do it with a firm command, in this case Stand UP shouted loudly.
It is rediculous to think this hurts the horse, brutilizes the horse so to speak. It is quick , no threatening involved like waving a whip in front of the horse and solves the problem
If just one person remembers my bit of advice and uses it this post was all worth while.
We could go on to whip training to catch a horse in the field, a hard to catch horse OR side passing.
I teach side passing almost from the start and practice a half dozen times each and every ride.
Want to talk about that???
When boasting ends, there dignity begins.
Owen D. Young
[QUOTE=Shadow14;3699762]
Quit hiding behind DEPENDS and answer how you would handle your horse if it cowkicked you out of the blue. How do you make this horse stop kicking you or anyone else???
You all know how I handle it, lets here how you would handle it???[/QUOTE]
Ohh there is always a depends.
I was on a movie set with Peek (he was 4 at the time) He was tied on set and I walked up to him, over twigs etc. I touched the back of the saddle, he spooked and double barrelled me and set me flying 15 feet. LOL I was in no condition to beat on him. I got right up-made sure everything worked and continued the rest of the day. (it was great in one way though… for the rest of the shooting, I didn’t get any arguments when I said “you can’t do that with that a horse” 
Anyway turns out this horse has no/little peripheral vision. I assumed he could see me walking up. This is a horse that never tests, who is a good boy, and never tries to get the upper hand. He had a bit of a ‘kicking’ history before I got him. He used to cow kick when a saddle pad was put on, or when people mounted. I never had an issue with him. If I had beaten him for being startled and frightened how would that help his confidence and behaviour?
Now we just know that we have to be sure he knows we are there… and there are no issues. Its not his fault he can’t see us.
OTOH we had a colt we bought. He was massive (finished up well over 17hh) He would kick, and he would aim. He tested everyone all the time. When he acted up H3ll rained down on him. He knew we were there and he meant it. So I made sure I he realized I meant it back :D.
So I agree with the ‘it depends’.
[QUOTE=katarine;3702453]
When boasting ends, there dignity begins.
Owen D. Young[/QUOTE]
katarine I am not afraid to give direct answers. Since you can not see my horse or have me demonstrate how to do things all I can do it talk.
I at least say something concrete, I don’t beat around the bush, I don’t hide behind DEPENDS. I will openly give my advice , tried advice, proven advice so what more can I do.
And like I said earlier if just ONE person reads this and gives it a try I will have served a purpose
Shadow you can do whatever you wish, that much is obvious. Anyone else can do whatever they wish, too…
I don’t know why you feel compelled to browbeat those who don’t fall in line with your ways. You said in a PM to me you’d take me under your wing and teach me. But as I said in my PM…I didn’t ASK for your tutelage, did I? You don’t seem to know what to do with anyone who says thanks but no thanks.
Regarding the kicking, I answered the question to the best of my ability, describing what I do, the best way I know how to describe it. But it didn’t align with your way seeing or handling the situation, so I in your eyes, I said nothing (?) That compelled you to repeat yourself ad nauseum complete with pictures of your horses doing things. It’s like you feel you must jump up down and shout how effective you and your ways are. I am not inclinded to shout from rooftops that I can feed and set out hay and not get killed. That my horses with minimal work and prep have done well i for themselves in the little trail things I compete in. I post about them in their own threads, sure, b/c I’m excited and happy and it was fun to do…but not here, as ‘proof’ of my greatness as a horse person or some such:confused:. I just don’t feel that need. I don’t go on and on about ME and mine. You do, again I don’t know why. The proof is in the pudding and I’m happy with my pudding and don’t need to post pictures of every little bite
sorry Katrina. I saw your video and thought you needed help.
Did it occur to you to offer to help? Or is it just easier and faster- though completely ineffective! to lay it on thick and shout about how much it’s needed?
My QH took 6th out of 70 horses at the state wide competition in 1/07. First time he’d set foot in a completely enclosed arena. We were 6 points from first place. I can live with that. He was then 5th out of 37 in the outdoor competition in September, with all of maybe 2 hrs total prep in the weeks leading up to it. The black TWH took 6th. Then in the outdoor one more recently, 3rd out of 17 in the Ladies. I’m thrilled with him. You can’t see who that horse was, to be tickled with who he is now. You give yourself 2 years to ‘make’ your horse…then blast me that my horse isn’t made already. We’ve owned that horse two years…but he has not been MY project that whole time. You see a sliver of my life, one 5 minute video… and want to tell me how to run my life, my horses, my training? You really don’t get it that offering to help…is much more effective than shouting about how much it’s needed and it works it works it works? Here’s the deal- I’m pretty hard core shut down to you. Because you don’t show me any respect. You make fun of my success as not that successful, but here’s what you have to do to be better. Well, you’re wrong.
You have no idea how much saddle time I have available to me, my goals, or what I call success. You don’t know that I’m in the office 8-5 and work on the laptop loading stuff, running data, managing stuff…then switching over to the web while it loads. I’m not able to ride as much as you do, my goals aren’t YOURS and newsflash…MY goals are NOT yours to manage or direct. That is something you really ought to get in your head. It will make you MORE effective, I suggest you consider thinking about that.
I’ve offered you a fair amount of respect. I’ve acknowledged people offer you horses, I haven’t tried to take away anything from you. You know squat about me, don’t know of horses I’m asked to help, colts I’ve got coming for training…but you’ll take everything you do know, away, and poke at me. Are you that uncertain in your own skin and effectiveness that you think it’s reasonable to beat me down? Like, really?
I feel in my heart you MEAN well, but jeez oh pete you are so ineffective. That has to be frustrating for you, maybe that’s why you are so blustery and loud.
What worked for my bossy QH mare
She was also food aggressive and obviously alpha to whomever had her before me. Pushy on the ground, led like crap, rushed the food and would turn her butt with a kick in mind when I made her leave the stall.
Love 'em or not, though, these alpha mares are smart and brave and there’s a lot to work with.
So first time or maybe two I went nuts enough to scare her out of the stall, then I stopped all noise and brought over a flake of hay. She came back into the stall, wary but still pretty sure of herself (must have been a fluke, she’s thinking), too rushy for my taste. I went away with the flake, saying nothing. Came back a few minutes later with it, gave her a hairly eyeball, still too rushy, went away. Two more times and she stood quietly and waited while I went in and gave it to her.
Next I taught her to ground tie, no foot moves outside its circle and the head stays level with her ears lined up with my head, no going way up or down, an ear on me, hips or shoulders move away if asked, otherwise no significant movement.
So then she would stand quietly for food, but still leaned forward with a pushy thought in her mind. So next I taught her to back up and wait.
Now she stands quietly, honestly if I look at her or nod my head at her or even blow at her like putting out a candle, she backs up, turns her head to the side and waits to be fed. It cracks me up to blow at the horses standing next to each other along the fenceline and have them “blow away”.
As far as kicking, the thought is still “in there” when she’s asked to do something she finds distasteful, but with the respect came so much better behavior on and off the horse. As I said elsewhere, though, with a horse like this (especially not knowing her past), it’s way easier to muscle through the poor behavior, get the attitude adjustment over with and move on. Then it’s fun to keep lightening and lightening the cues so they start to be invisible to the average person.
[QUOTE=Shadow14;3700835]
Funny you have no problems using a whip to dicipline and yet my knee can’t be used?? I guess I need to buy a whip and carry it. I don’t use whips but I guess if I want to give up this brutal stuff I will have to learn.[/QUOTE]
Shadow, if you will note the difference is #1) the mare that got whipped was LOOSE, and after getting whacked once the, OP just threatened her. YOU would get after a horse in cross-ties, which had no escape and do whatever. Knee 'em once, right? OR kick 'em? Smack 'em with a board? What? Would you beat the holy c*ap o/o them if they kicked your wife? But if they kicked YOU, would you just knee them lightly? The punishment is all the same no matter what they do?
Perhaps it would depend?
Luckily we can all train our own horses, so not to worry. But you should try to look beyond absolutes; their are really very few in the world.
I’m glad your horses love you. Mine love me. That really proves ZERO.
No – I’m wrong! What it proves is that horses are very gentle, timid creatures who can be amazingly generous and forgiving…
I LOVE alpha mares! Maybe because I identify?
I have only mares anyway (except one lone 2 yr. old gelding I will probably end up selling & my breeding stallion) and my favorite is an Arab who I’ve had since she was 2. She was running the show at her old place and so she expected to do the same with me.
Well, we worked it out just fine. A slap or two when she was really wicked, but mainly I put her out in a 5 acres field all by herself. She was so pathetic over at the fence line trying to get the 3 cows who lived on the other side to be her friends <g>.
But I would come every day, mess with her, groom her, walk her over to the local arena to do ground work (I didn’t have a trailer then), etc. When I hurt my foot & couldn’t walk I taught her to pony off my bicycle!
She is STILL alpha with the rest of the herd, and apparently can be alittle stinky to others, but she’s always great with me. Solid as a rock on the trail (well, for an Arab mare…).
When I was on crutches, I went out in the pasture and she walked right next to me with her ears pinned, keeping the other horses away.
And I am still amazed at her power. When she approaches, all she has to do is whip an ear back and the whole herd gives way. It’s like Moses parting the Red Sea!! She hasn’t actually had to kick a horse in YEARS!
I wish I could influence them as easily as she can…
Timely subject since I got zoned in on and kicked at today by one of my homebred yearlings that I thought I solved this problem w/ LAST winter. He’s got a food problem, but all spring/summer and the little bit of fall we had he’s been fine. My BF forgot to tell me, but he zoned in on him yesterday, but he didn’t tell me that until today, AFTER he’d done it to me, so I had no warning.
Kicking is one of the several behaviors that I simply don’t stand for. I don’t care what I’m doing w/ them, even just walking among them in the field or actually working w/ them on the line, grooming or what have you. I’m not a human punching bag.
Last winter, I didn’t have anything w/ me to beat him w/, as I approached him while eating on the round bale, which normally was a non issue, as I always say something so they know I’m there. He double barreled and about got my head as I was bent over to pick something up. NOT. ACCEPTABLE. I screamed and hollered and gave chase around the round bales until he stopped putting his ass to me and would face me. I refused to let him return to a spot around the bales until he submitted to me. Once he did, I gave him a pat on the head, a good boy and let him return to eating. He thought about trying the next day, but he seemed retain that information from the day before and it’s been a non issue until today.
I had dumped their pellets and was walking around them checking everyone, talking to them and petting them like I or my BF does every day. All was well until I got to him, who was standing between to other boys. Because of what he did last winter, I try to always take a wide circle around him so I can approach from the front or off the shoulder just in case. As I was going around, I was eyeballing him and saw him zone in on me, move his ass w/ me and fire. He got the bucket to the ass straight away and chased off the feed pile yet again. I had gotten body slammed into my stallion and a knee into the thigh by the low mare being chased by alpha mare not 10 minutes before feeding these guys. So w/ my gimpyness and the snow, I was not going to be able to chase as long as I’d hoped, but he got the message. We’ll see what he does tomorrow, or is that today, yep, today. I may grab a whip to take up w/ me or just use the stick I have handy to break ice. I don’t know what his problem is, as I’ve never had a homebred kicker before, but I will nip it in the bud one way or another.
