We all seem to agree that safety is paramount and that much of etiquette is really about safety. I’m sure most of us have seen unsafe situations. It can be awkward to try and do anything about them. What have you done that you think worked well and caused minimal upset?
Talked to the man or secretary.
The masters are supposed to handle it. Don’t get upset if you don’t see a big, dramatic reaction, though. Safety, and by extension horsemanship, is a pretty touchy subject and a lot of masters try to approach it diplomatically (if there’s not immediate threat to life and limb, of course).
Yes, I agree that notifying a master is the correct approach and preferably in private at a later time. But sometimes there IS an immediate threat and the master is not accessible. Are there any circumstances in which you would address the problem directly? If so, how?
I am not talking about an existing problem, I am just curious how other experienced hunt members think about this topic. It’s one that has puzzled me over the years.
One thing that is working (slowly) is to start a dialogue with the club about what people should and should not do when something happens. There is a “cowboy up” culture in fox hunting and other sports that can easily be taken too far and cause preventable, permanent damage or even death. The whole point is for everyone to have a good time and come back safely to the tea, and if that means taking a few minutes to assess the damage rather than hopping right back on in a burst of adrenaline, then that’s behavior for the hunt to encourage.
If someone is creating a clear danger in the field, the field master really ought to be paying attention and address the issue right then (or have it immediately brought to his/her attention and then do so). Personally speaking, if I feel that something Very Bad is likely to happen before we end the hunt, I’d rather risk the wrath of the POTB by (hopefully discretely) calling the nearest master’s attention to the problem than have someone get injured because I just looked the other way and hoped for the best.
Do you have a particular scenario in mind? There are a lot of possible variables…
ETA: If it’s someone having trouble with his/her horse, you can always politely offer assistance. Or, if it’s someone being reckless, you can diplomatically help ease the unaware or less-capable riders away from that person. Frequently both take out innocent bystanders rather than themselves…
As noted by Kodiak, do you have a particular scenario in mind?
I think the response depends much on the particular circumstances, behavior, etc.
I have seen horses that are jumping dangerously, as in should not be jumping on that day. And I have said something to the field master.
I have seen people with fractious, dangerous rearing/bucking/running up my a$$ sorts of horses; I’ve seen people who are almost falling off whilst jumping. I have talked to the riders directly, beginning with asking if there is anything I can do to help (such as allow the horse to go in front of or behind me, or offer to ride off toward the back a bit, or join the 2nd flight with them). BTW, this is one of my peeves because often hot/difficult horses are not “having a blast,” they are terrified.
People who are riding and drunk (seen that, omg)? Say something to the field master.
I’ve certainly seen all of the scenarios that you folks list and have done pretty much what you have done. I guess the tricky part is that “unsafe” is to some extent in the eye of the beholder, up to a point.
So, when you offer help to someone who doesn’t think they need it, that person is apt to think you should MYOB. And if you mention it to the master who then diplomatically addresses it with the individual, they are apt to get a “what problem?” response.
I really like Kodiak’s “dialogue” approach. The masters should be willing to discuss scenarios and the expected, appropriate responses by field members. Certainly this is not something to be rushed, but a diplomatic process of communication seems like a good idea. Thanks, Kodiak.
There are certain people and certain horses that I WILL NOT RIDE NEAR, not in front of me or behind me. Whether it’s due to them being a poor rider, or over-horsed, a kicker or a dirty stopper in first flight, its just not worth the hassle and fried nerves to be near that situation.
When I first started hunting, I wanted to be up front, not to the back of the field and I encountered lots of ruckus. I found that the only thing I could control was my horse and where I placed us. I was able to observe who had well behaved horses and who was polite and safe to ride around. Those are the people I would place myself with.
I did hunt with a gentleman who had a “look” if someone rode to close behind. I wish I could master his “hairy eyeball” look of “back off!”.
I have found that if you ask people who ride too close if they would like to pass, they generally respond with “no thanks”. I have gotten to the point where I will fall back at the earliest opportunity. With my retired hunting pony, if he felt pressured from behind, he would rush forward. This would create a rough day because I was constantly asking him to slow his tiny butt down. Once I realized it was because of how he was being followed, I removed the problem and we were able to hunt nicely again.
I feel the same way, jawa.
And I try to manage it by positioning myself around horses and riders I like and trust. And as for the rest, it’s a bit “out of sight out of mind”. With all due respect to the club, sport and not trying to come off as selfish, I pay good money to come out, and enjoy myself and ensure my horse enjoys herself too. I don’t generally make it a habit of worrying (tattling?) about the adult riders around me.
I think you’ll find that if there are repeat offenders and not someone just having a bad day, the field master is already aware.
It’s kind of nice to find out how similar everyone’s experiences and responses are. I do what jawa and ISR do as well.
Happy hunting, all!
Do any of your hunts keep ICE info on file? This thread made me think it might be nice for the secretary to have a list of ICE contacts, and maybe even barn/vet numbers on hand for each horse and rider. A copy kept with the secretary as well as in the hound trailer so it is always available. Would you want your info to be kept with the secretary? Would you think it was too paternalistic for your hunt to request such info of each member?
Oops, posted to wrong thread, my apologies!
Hey Newbies, if someone asks you if you would like to pass, it is NOT a compliment!
[QUOTE=MissMilly;7745083]
Do any of your hunts keep ICE info on file? This thread made me think it might be nice for the secretary to have a list of ICE contacts, and maybe even barn/vet numbers on hand for each horse and rider. A copy kept with the secretary as well as in the hound trailer so it is always available. Would you want your info to be kept with the secretary? Would you think it was too paternalistic for your hunt to request such info of each member?
Oops, posted to wrong thread, my apologies![/QUOTE]
I filled ICE info out when joining. Not sure where it’s kept but someone has it!
It’s definitely an “it depends” answer. Fashion, turnout, riding ability, etc, etc are something I’m going to ignore. Ditto rudeness, stupidity, and a certain level of poor decision making–basically as long as it doesn’t look like someone is going to need a 911 call, it’s not my position to interfere.
However, not all field masters are created equally. Some, especially older and less flexible folks, may not keep a very close eye on their field until the screaming starts. The cooperation of the rest of the field in handling budding “situations” helps to keep everyone safer.
Fortunately, I have never needed to do more than the polite comments mentioned above and, once, a quiet word with the field master at the end of a hunt. However, I can imagine (thankfully rare) scenarios that would need addressed sooner.
For me, the bottom line is that we ALL pay good money to hunt and have a good outing. Most hunts exist because of both the members who come and ride and the volunteer labor of other members who pay full price to, basically, some out and work for the benefit of the club. With that in mind, staying alert and tactfully helping the rest of your group to keep the ride safe and pleasant doesn’t seem a lot to ask of the field.
My hunt has an in depth article about safety in the hunt field on the website that can be referenced to any member who isn’t aware of the right way to ride in a group. That being said, if someone is mucking up my horse/safety with their bad choices/behavior I might offer/give a correction. If it was unheeded then from that point on avoid them by moving to the side or rear of the field.
If necessary to stop something immediately during the hunt I would bend the Field Masters ear otherwise, share my concerns with the Masters who are responsible for helping members who are struggling.
I know which horse/rider combinations I don’t want near me and I prefer them to be ahead of me so I can see and avoid the commotions associated with them. My main hunt horse is beautifully behaved and easily rated. If I want to let the field draw away from me- no problem. If I need to catch up- no problem. A well trained hunt horse is a real treasure.
SLW - Would you mind posting a link to that article or PM me if you’d prefer?
Thanks in advance!
When I was in a situation that was unsafe… my horse was bucking and acting like an idiot. I retired… and went back to the trailers. A nice hunt member accompanied me so I made it safely. I think that each rider really needs to access the situation. I didn’t want to create a problem for the other riders. He was acting like a fool that day… had been out before and did not do it…so I was not prepared. We waited it out at the trailers. while my sig other had a great hunt day. 
Ironic to notice this thread … I’m reading a book, “Crucial Conversations”, that quotes a statistic (several studies, actually) on when people will speak up when they see something that is hazardous or unsafe - and when they won’t. They feel the negative fallout from speaking up is greater than the potential hazard - even if that isn’t a rational conclusion.
One stat was that at the time of the study, only about 8% of nurses would speak up if they knowingly saw a doctor making a mistake. Even if a patient’s life was threatened. Everything from a misunderstanding, to the doctor taking a shortcut around proper procedure, to a doctor doing something improperly.
So I guess in the end it may matter less how someone speaks up, than if they are someone who will speak up at all.
OandO - Good point and on the mark. I am confident that many more hunt field concerns are whispered among other field members than are given full voice, even after the fact. That is part of the reason I started this thread.
