Spinoff- Thoroughbred Stallions; a list

[beowulf]

Stonesider has a lot of nice horses at Finger Lakes, as does Say Florida Sandy.

Expect huge frame and slow to mature physically with Stonesider. Also expect incredible movement – really – Stonesider throws some of the nicest moving TBs I’ve seen. They seem incredibly suited for dressage. Only problem is they seem to be pushed early because of their size they seem more mature than they are, and I’ve seen a few that had soundness baggage because of it.

Obviously, I really like Say Florida Sandy. You will get a SOUND, SOUND horse from him. It’s really too bad he did not set the world on fire, IMHO, he seems to consistently pass on more soundness than I think is average in the TB world. His sire was the same way.

Mixmaster looks nice. Generally, MdO (or sons of El Prado) are very nice movers.

[snaffle1987]

AL KAHLI: New sire in New York. By Medaglia D Oro out of a mare by Capote x Lyphard x Mr Prospector. Excellent turf lines. He wil be standing his second season in NY for $2500
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/167582/al-khali

DR LARGE: $2500 in NY Son of AP Indy out of a mare by Mr Prospector x Lyphard x Buckpasser. NIce, sturdy looking stallion with some older blood right there. He looks very laid back too! http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/128278/dr-large

HAIMISH HY: Always admired the look of this stallion. He looks like a very typey pony. Veyr beautiful head and nexk, short back, balanced, good bone. $1500 in CA. Different Pedigree:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/haimish+hy
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/166002/haimish-hy

MR BIG> Really like this one too but hes a little on the pricier side. $6000 standing in CA. Son of DYNAFORMER our of a mare by FAPPIANO. 2nd dam is by a SECRETARIAT son. Check him out! http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/132380/mr-big

[vineyridge]

Oliver’s Twist
http://www.pedigreequery.com/olivers+twist

Stands at Menoken Farms in Colorado for $1000. Is the sire of some truly catlike movers who have gone into eventing as a second career. Farm might not be very receptive to sport horse breeders, but he’s worth a try. Website says that they will ship semen for NON-TB mares.
http://www.menokenfarms.com/olivers-twist/

Really lovely old style pedigree with many TB sport horse lines throughout. Tail female to the truly wonderful Vaila/Padilla/Padua line which is the tail female line for Black Servant, Blue Larkspur, RAN and Relic. All of those stallions produced the jump in spades.

[snaffle1987]

I would buy a Stonesider in a heart beat. His sire, Giants Causeway was a late maturing, almost weedy type of sire in his young years but they all seem to grow into lovely types with excellent bone.

[vineyridge]

And I personally wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole. I prefer the lankier, rangier type. He looks like a barrel racer to me.

[snaffle1987]

SINGING SAINT: Standing in Canada. By El Prado (Saddlers Wells x Sir Ivor) Out of a mare by Easy Goer. 2017 fee is listed as private. would have to inquire
http://www.adenastallions.com/horses/singing-saint.html

SLIGO BAY: also at Adena in FL. Turf bred. Excellent candidate for sport horses. By Saddlers Wells and out of a mare by HALO
. http://www.adenastallions.com/horses/sligo-bay.html

PLEASANT STRIKE> at stud in FL. By Smart Strike out of a mare by PLeasant Colony. Will add bone. beautiful stallion. I think he sold through a keeneland sale though. Not sure where he ended up?? He was purchased by La Mulera Corp

TEMPLE CITY: Another son of Dynaformer. Great bone on him. His dam is by Danzig out of a MR Prospector mare. He is $15k to breed to but might be worth sourcing out some offspring
http://www.spendthriftfarm.com/horses/temple-city-1661.html

[snaffle1987]

Depends what discipline you like Vineyridge. For eventers I like them to be less heavy, athletic build. For hunters I want some bone and width, uphill front end, angle to the shoulder, and great movement. The lankier TB’s with no width or substance to them will not compete and do well in the hunters and I prefer not to ride something that has no barrel

[snaffle1987]

I’d consider anything with Bold BIdder close up in the pedigree. Look at A Fine Romance, who was by a son of Bold Bidder. Great talent in his pedigree but unfortunately not at stud anymore (AFR)

[snaffle1987]

PADDY O PRADO: I quite fancy anything by EL Prado. Paddy O Prado is available in KY for 3500 LFG. He is by El Prado out of a Prized (Kris S) mare. http://www.spendthriftfarm.com/horses/paddy-oprado-2275.html

[Texarkana]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but the problem with this list, IMO, is that it is all theoretical.

Many of these stallions take a pretty picture and have a nice pedigree, but have either conformation flaws, poor temperaments, or lack of movement that would render them non-competitive in the sport horse market. Some listed here only have a single crop or less on the ground at the moment; no way to assess their offspring truly.

But FWIW, I did send my mare to Vertiformer (mentioned earlier) last year and saw him, as well as his barnmates, in person a few times. My mare unfortunately did not catch. I think most sport people would be happy with him in person, although he seemed a bit off behind when I saw him to truly gauge his movement. I don’t say that as a criticism, just as an, “I don’t know how he really moves.” I was breeding to race, so it wasn’t a huge concern knowing how he ran.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Just a Devil is not theoretical. His youngsters are taking kids around lower levels, and also competing a the top. https://sites.google.com/site/cedarbrookfarmva/stallions

[snaffle1987]

FORT PRADO: another son of El Prado. This one is in Indiana for a fee of 2000. His dam is a Fortunate Prospect x Raja Baba.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/129231/fort-prado

KIPLING: By Gulch (Mr Prospector) out of a mare by Storm Bird. Second dam is by Secretariat. Might be an interesting stallion for sport. Gulch makes the kind that have great temperaments
http://www.mightyacres.com/html/kipling.html

THE VISUALIZER: Giants Causeway son out of a Holy Bull x Slewpy mare. a Giants Causeway with less bone for Vineyridge Fee is 2000. http://www.mightyacres.com/html/the_visualiser.html

UNBRIDLED EXPRESS: Unbridled Song son. Dam is a Sky Classic (Nijinsky II) x Polish Navy. Standing in Indiana for 2000.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/136669/unbridled-express

DRINKWITHTHEDEVIL: came across this stallion by SMart Strike out of Deputy Minister x CHiefs Crown daughter. Really like his shoulder, neck set, and overall type. http://www.indianastallionstation.com/

[snaffle1987]

it may be theoretical but to whom is it theoretical? there are proven bloodlines that is worth looking into. Yes they may take a pretty picture but its up to you, the breeder, to do your research. Visit the stallion, inquire about him, get lots of photos, maybe even a video if they can supply one, research his offspring, ask around. They do not all have bad temperments and even though Dynaformer had a bad temperament, the majority of his offspring and sons did not inherit it. Barbaro and his siblings for instance were all lovely to work with.

BUt ultimately its up to you, if youre interested to do the research just like you would with breeding to warmblood stallions.

IMHO, I think a lot of these would be lovely crossed with warmblood mares who have great movement or jump

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;9021432]
And I personally wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole. I prefer the lankier, rangier type. He looks like a barrel racer to me.[/QUOTE]

That’s too bad, as Stonesider and Giant’s Causeway both are some of the better moving lines for thoroughbreds bred to race… What’s even better WRT Stonesider is that his damline is a proven sporthorse line for eventing - Gilded Time was especially sought after for eventers thanks to his What A Pleasure damside and direct male line to Damascus et all. There are several on the board with GC and Stonesider offspring. Maybe they’ll chime in.

We keep talking about these “potentially interesting” Thoroughbreds… it’s so tiring – find a TB that has been proven in the sport you want – stop looking for cheap race studs and find a proper sport horse stallion. Chances are, the stallion actually proven in the sport will be significantly cheaper anyway… It’s doing a major disservice to the few dwindling Thoroughbred Stallion Owners that have spent time and money campaigning their stallions as proven sport horses.

All of these TBs suggested are nice and all, but most are not competing in sport and therefore, not proven for sport - and more than most of them do not have the appropriate movement needed for serious sport-horse potential. You’d have better luck going with TBs that were, like A Fine Romance, Sea Accounts, Rather Well, etc…

If breeders want to keep TBs relevant, and keep up with the ever-changing, ever-superior WB books, they need to be breeding TBs to other proven TBs (which also supports TB stallion owners) – not basing their breeding selection on what looks pretty on paper.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;9021420]
I would buy a Stonesider in a heart beat. His sire, Giants Causeway was a late maturing, almost weedy type of sire in his young years but they all seem to grow into lovely types with excellent bone.[/QUOTE]
FYI, this is what Stonesider is consistently producing:

http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/gilded-feather/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/we-go-2011-17h-chestnut-gelding/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/lookn-mighty-fancy-201-16-2-h-ch-filly/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/a-sensational-guy-2012-16-1-h-bay-gelding/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/mynameiscrash-2012-16-3h-chestnut-gelding/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/golden-nugget-2011-16-h-ch-gelding/
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/shellys-cider-2010-16h-chestnut-mare/

As you can see, they are huge – and they mature fast… what they look like as 3 y/os is nothing what they look like at 5 y/os. Typically, they are more uphill than the average TB - some get the GC/Stonesider neck, but not all. They have better than average trots for TBs, and excellent canters. Stonesider himself doesn’t seem to be outproducing himself, which is good for sport horse buyers – you can buy these nice, very athletic-moving horses for sport-horse prices.

[Dressagelvr]

. An issue with many tb stallions is unless they are approved for breeding by a warmblood registry and/or extremely successful in show jumping, show hunters, eventing, or dressage, many mare owners won’t have a lot of interest in breeding to them.

Worth repeating.

Unfortunately, taking a pretty picture in no way qualifies a stallion as a sporthorse breeding prospect.

[snaffle1987]

no where in my post was I basing my posts about a pretty picture. A picture, or many pictures can tell a lot about a stallion confirmationally: feet, legs, shoulder, balance, etc. Many pictures do more than just a single photo; so as noted above; DO YOUR RESEARCH

There are many proven TB sport horse sires out there; their breeders are welcome to post them here (some have!). You don’t have to race to post them here.

Many people like to shop on sites like CANTER: and pointing out the stallions with potential; is worth it those looking at their offspring on the track.

And I have never shopped for a sport horse prospect based on a warmblood registry affiliation. It is nothing against them; but their affiliations, scores, stallion proving, etc mean nothing to me. For the dressage people; perhaps it does more so. As with just about any breed; there are some major duds accepted by the stud book every year and some major successes that never get/got accepted by the stud book. For some it means a lot and for others it means nothing.

I prefer to give the TB’s a shot; there are lots of great ones out there worth looking into their offspring as sport horse or breed prospects but the land of warmblood currently refuses to even look at TB’s or TB mares for breeding (when the TB had such a huge influence on the breed to begin with!)

To each their own but I am not posting these stallions just for people to think about using them; but perhaps looking into their available offspring as potentials.

Has anyone ever looked at Spectacular Bid and studied his lines? There is a reason why Spectacular Bid was always sought after by sport horse folks… and he’s a son of Bold Bidder (grandsire to A fine romance!)

Has anyone seen Ruffian’s dam in photo? She was sired by Native Dancer and was a tremendous looking mare; to me she looks Trakhener! Perhaps why Native Dancer and his sons are so well known for throwing lovely horses in the flesh with great athletic talent. Take a look at her
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10005305

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;9021758]
Worth repeating.

Unfortunately, taking a pretty picture in no way qualifies a stallion as a sporthorse breeding prospect.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, no one is talking about pretty pictures. Snaffle are Vineyridge pulling data of stallions/mares that have pedigrees that have either ancestors who were in sport, or direct descendants. Some of the horses are turf horses, steeple chase lines, etc. Those ARE sport lines that are transferable to disciplines like eventing.

I’d suggest reading the thread first before jumping to conclusions, though I do stand by my post above that people would be better served supporting Sport-Horse TB Stallion Owners by pursuing Proven TB Sport horses and/or buying the get of Proven TBs like AFR/SA/RW (or breeding to the Proven Sporthorse TB) over “stallion shopping” race horse stallions.

[snaffle1987]

thanks for posting the listings of offspring at finger lakes, very intriguing! I might have to go check some of them out!

[vineyridge]

Bold Bidder had four grand get in the 2004 Olympic Games and IIRC one or two at Sydney in eventing. He is proved and reproved far beyond AFR.

That 2004 mare from Ocala, Jeepers2 http://www.pedigreequery.com/jeepers2 has the breeding to be an excellent sport horse, and the COTHer who is now training her (at 13) says that the mare is freakishly good. Why don’t TB people look for this kind of breeding for sport horses instead of modern US dirt track racers that have never produced top notch sport horses? It’s trying to fit square pegs into round holes that makes the WB people dismiss the whole race of TBs as sport horses.