Spinoff: What Kind of Instructor Did/Do You Have?

[wcporter]

I grew up riding with an instructor very similar to GM from the tender age of 8 until my early 20’s. She was tough as nails, allowed no BS, and the horse’s well being always (with the rare exception, of course) came before the rider. And she expected 100% every time.

No crying on horseback allowed. If you fell off and could stand back up, you got back on. Always. If it was 90 degrees and you were hot, dehydrated, and exhausted, your horse got cooled off, untacked and offered water before you could even consider taking your water bottle and sitting in the air conditioned viewing room.

Sometimes she was not nice and she did, more than once, hurt my feelings. Like GM, she has mellowed with age, but through all of that grit she was and still is a trainer who knows her sh*t. And I wouldn’t trade that experience for the world.

As an adult rider, I soley credit my horsemanship to her. You will never see me riding sans helmet, with incorrect tack, or on a dirty, unkempt horse. And these days, I mostly putz around the back 40 or hack out in the field

As a professional (in the non-horse industry), I have zero problem accepting criticism and have learned to take almost nothing personally. My last boss was a major hardass but impeccable at her job. She would tear you a new one if you did not produce what she asked the first time and she expected perfection. Others hated her for it. I admired her, and because I didn’t take it personally, learned a tremendous amount from her.

These GM love/hate, he’s a god/he’s an ass/sexist/bigot threads pop up every year and opinions always fall right down the middle. I would cut off my left titty to ride with GM for only 15 mins. But his style does not intimidate me. And I assume this is because of the trainer I grew up with.

I think I may be a masochist :lol:

[GoneAway]

I had the exact same type of trainer (tough,direct, but never mean and not a screamer) and wouldn’t have traded that experience for anything. Hard work and horsemanship (no grooms in that barn) resulted in some of the best riders and horses in the area, period. What’s more, she didn’t do drama, so we all got along, worked hard together, and thought the world of her even though I got my butt chewed on a couple of occasions. People should learn to not take criticism so personally, and I think they’ll find life is so much better.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=wcporter;7356381]
As an adult rider, I soley credit my horsemanship to her. You will never see me riding sans helmet, with incorrect tack, or on a dirty, unkempt horse. And these days, I mostly putz around the back 40 or hack out in the field :)[/QUOTE]

Different strokes for different folks, as the old saying goes. But not everyone has to ride for the Dragon Lady in order to become a good horseman/woman. My first instructor was a screamer and I used to come home crying every week after my lesson. I also used to come home crying almost every day from 1st grade because my teacher was a screamer. She was never screaming at me, but I was the kind of kid who couldn’t deal well with that kind of environment.

It took me until college to understand that I learned best from an instructor/teacher who didn’t yell, didn’t insult me, and didn’t rely on sarcasm as a communication tool. It took me until the end of my junior year to grow enough of a backbone to refuse to tolerate it. I refused to ride on the school’s drill team my senior year because the coach was a screamer. I’m in my 50’s now and that approach to teaching is still a deal-breaker for me, even though it no longer makes me cry.

Of course, when it comes to GM, it’s all irrelevant anyway, because even 35 years ago when I was at my peak of riding ability, I was still several tiers below the caliber of student who rides in a GM clinic.

[findeight]

I’ve had all kinds over the decades in various disciplines and the breed shows. If you want to mess around and have fun? The kinder, gentler BFF types are warm, fuzzy ego boosters and confidence builders- unless you want to solve a problem with a disobedient horse or nagging bad habit you KNOW you have and have had for some time. Then they become a waste of money and time.

The ones that help you fix the horse and your riding and are ambitious driving themselves and you to be the best? Those are the best BUT the fact they are ambitious on your behalf means they can be impatient and direct, particularly at repeated mistakes that hold you back. Some don’t like that style and that makes advancing to more advanced work much less likely.

Maybe a better way to say this is passionate people who try to instill that passion in students are…well…passionate about it. If student is not? Oil and water. If student is? They settle for nothing short of perfection, respond to what seems like harsh critique because they agree.

I always did best with the passionate ones. Far as a few that go overboard? The screaming, berating, insulting ones are NOT passionate. They are just bullies on a power trip who found a way to engage in that behavior and get paid for it.

GM and other greats aren’t bullies, they honestly get impatient with others that don’t share that deep passion and drive. Riders need to understand that before signing on with them.

[adcurtiss]

I am extremely blessed to have had a trainer about the opposite of what many have had (GM-like trainers). She is extremely encouraging and positive and cares greatly about the horses. She is also very knowledgable. She is hard on you if you don’t care or don’t try, but is not (usually) a yelling type. She has helped me to grow greatly and I am so thankful to her for that. I don’t think I would preform well under a trainer who was constantly trying to knock me down. She has very many successful riders which leads me to believe that extremely harsh training isn’t always the best route (albeit, it is very helpful/encouraging for some). I love my trainer very much and wouldn’t trade her for anyone! We have an extremely close relationship and I am so thankful for that.

[foursocks]

There is a difference between a screamer and someone who is tough. I rode with two trainers throughout my childhood who were tough- and they got results. We had one of the top show barns in Zones 5+6, and we had real camaraderie within our little barn family. I never got screamed at, nor would my mother have put up with it. I was pushed to succeed, given the tools to do so, and occasionally yelled at when I was not working up to their standards or did something dangerous or stupid. Both of my trainers had a wicked sense of humor, but I never felt attacked- it was part of how they taught, and we all knew their primary interest was in producing happy and successful horses and riders.

I’ve worked with a few different trainers in the decade since I started riding again and the ones who are all praise don’t get the job done for me. They are great for people with low confidence or who come to riding with a lot of emotion. That is not me. If someone criticizes me for not being up to par and wants me to go back and do it better, I don’t feel attacked- I feel challenged. Anyone who takes instruction that really pushes them as a personal attack is never going to get past a certain point.

My current trainer is very tough, and getting praise from him is really meaningful. He also has a wicked sense of humor (which I love), and demands excellence, and some people feel very intimidated by him and his resume, but it works for me. If you are willing to work (hard) he will do what he can to help you succeed. If you aren’t going to work hard don’t bother showing up for his lessons because he won’t baby anyone. Like GM he believes riding and training is a very serious thing, and anyone who isn’t serious needs to downgrade their idea of how far they can get. It doesn’t make him mad- he is always saying emotions can’t come into it- but he won’t waste his time with someone who isn’t there to work.

Along the same lines, screamers have nothing to teach because they bring too much emotion into it. Screamers have their own baggage that they bring to the ring, and that isn’t helpful to anyone. I don’t understand why people cannot see the difference between that (someone who belittles the riders and never gives them a way to succeed), and someone who expects his or her students to push themselves.

[PaintedHunter]

My current trainer is the best of both worlds for me. She is fun, friendly, encouraging and knows her stuff… but at the same time calls me out on my (many) mistakes, pushes me to be better and MAKES me do things correctly. She also gently nudges me out of my comfort zone and has the uncanny ability to know just how much to do so without me retreating into myself out of fear.

I had a screamer coach as a kid, and while it was effective, it didn’t make riding fun for me. My most recent previous trainer was too laid back and didn’t push at all. I have finally found my Goldilocks trainer.

[NoSuchPerson]

See, I just don’t get the belief that a tough, demanding trainer is essential to learning to ride well. I am the classic overachiever. I want to be the best. I am highly motivated to work hard to achieve my goals. I don’t need an instructor to demand that dedication from me, I’ve already got it. I even ride without stirrups without being told! :lol:

I just need an instructor who can evaluate my performance and calmly and politely tell me what I need to do to make it better.

Now that I’m an old re-rider, my riding goals have changed considerably from what they were when I was 21, but d@mn it, I’m going to keep working at it until I’m the very best little old lady of all the little old ladies in the 2 ft jumper ring. :lol:

[ParadoxFarm]

I never had a tough trainer when I learned to ride/jump and I wish I did. I probably wouldn’t be struggling to fix my bad habits now as an adult.

[Finzean]

I’ve had several trainers/instructors over the years, but my current one is best described as a “multiplier” per Liz Wiseman’s definition. She gets more out of me than I ever think possible and does so without being negative. Don’t get me wrong…she calls a spade a spade, is pretty pragmatic & doesn’t put up with any nonsense, but she is also compassionate and lives in the real world. I cannot say enough good things about how she operates - not just as an instructor, clinician, judge, horsewoman, etc. but as a human being. She’s tough when warranted but wise enough to know when tough will cause a loss of ground in achieving goals.

OH - and unlike some trainers/instructors, this one can put her money where her mouth is. She’s the real deal.

[KateKat]

Although I didn’t grow up riding, I did grow up swimming where I encountered a lot of different coaches and definitely learned what worked/didn’t work for me. I don’t like the screamers, or the ones who are mean just for the sake of being mean. However, I do not enjoy being coddled. Granted, there are some days where I appreciate praise but my thought process is I’m in “training” for a reason-its to learn and be pushed to be better. If I get praise all the time I feel like its fake because I do know when I’m doing well and when I’m not.

So I definitely appreciate that about my trainer-she tells me I’m doing a good job when I’m doing a good job, and is not afraid to call me out/push me to be better when I’m riding like crap. I also really like that she will talk me through whats going on i.e. telling me I missed my distance because I forgot my outside leg not I missed the distance because I suck. There is always reasoning that behind what she asks me to do, and its reasoning that makes sense to me.

[IPEsq]

I grew up with a tough trainer, have learned the most from various people I consider to be tough trainers and agree there is a huge difference between being tough and being insulting or a screamer. I’ve been insulted, yelled at and had dirt thrown at me by GM, and probably the only reason I finished that clinic was because my tough trainer taught me to never ever talk back to the instructor. He knows his stuff for sure and I have learned from him but I have also learned the same principles of riding by tough trainers who didn’t need to be insulting, throw things or try to drive students to tears. Sure, teaching can be frustrating sometimes, and some people lose their temper when they have to repeat themselves over and over and over when a student continues to make the same mistake. That happens even with the “best” trainers, and then it’s time to take a break and cool down.

In the end, a good trainer will demand respect, and that is something that is hard to give to a screamer. It is also hard to respect a trainer who coddles and praises mediocrity or worse, incorrect riding. That is different than praising improvement even when you still have a problem to work on. When GM talks about getting a horse to accept the aids, he doesn’t expect 100% acceptance at the end of the ride or lesson. For some horses, it may be only a very small amount. Others may catch on better. The result at the end of that day is still not correctness much less perfection, and a trainer shouldn’t only reward a student for achieving a high level of riding but give small rewards along the way when things are done well/better. At the same time, a trainer shouldn’t sugar coat the fact that student still needs work on X or did Y wrong because that doesn’t create good riders. I guess in today’s standards, that is considered tough.

[Lady_Eboshi]

I grew up with the tough and exacting H/J types who were direct because they were trying to get it through starry-eyed little heads that this sport takes no prisoners. It’s difficult, it’s dangerous, it’s exhilarating, heartbreaking and unbelievably demanding all at the same time. That’s a level of grit you better grow if you want to succeed. Mostly, they were trying to keep us safe.

My dressage teachers were both ex-military and I still think I do best with that kind of instruction. We were best of friends and drinking buddies–AFTER the horses were put away for the night! In the ring, no compromise and the horse always came first.

My Eventing coach we referred to behind her back as the Klingon High Commander . . . she told me once at Millbrook, “If you don’t go clean, don’t come back!” She wasn’t joking, either!

[equisusan]

I’ve never had a trainer scream or insult me. I would find that weird and unnecessary. I always try my hardest. I’ve had various types of trainers over the years but the two I learned the most from were both successful Grand Prix riders as well as trainers. Their knowledge base was head and shoulders above the rest. It doesn’t matter whether I’m doing hunters or jumpers I just found them better. One of these trainers was very technical to the point that I found it made me lose touch with my natural feel a bit. Regardless of that I learned tons and tons. And he pushed me way out of my comfort zone. The other of these trainers, also my current trainer, is more about feel and supports my natural ability as well as provides me focus points like straightness and pace, etc. I think it’s tremendously important to understand how your trainer rides and their thoughts on horse training to find the right one for yourself.

[imapepper]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7357195]

My Eventing coach we referred to behind her back as the Klingon High Commander . . . she told me once at Millbrook, “If you don’t go clean, don’t come back!” She wasn’t joking, either![/QUOTE]

I rode with someone like that for awhile. I had plenty of those round…when you don’t go clean you start hoping for another gate to exit the ring LOL I learned a lot about riding from that person. But am now fortunate enough to ride with a coach that is tough and expects me to pay attention and give 100%…but isn’t mean. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean the f bomb isn’t used as occasional punctuation LOL but it’s never used with an insult :winkgrin:

[Snowfox]

I learn to ride from my Grandfather who was in the Calvary, need I say more! But seriously he was no nonsense but he was also kind. However we did jump big or go home!
As a trainer myself I find different people need me to be a different person. However the horse always comes first. I always explain to people they are going to get out of riding (or life) what they put into it and that I am not going to work harder than they are.

[shojumpin]

To each their own!

I like a good hardcore strict know-their-stuff trainer. I look back at all of my groom/riding jobs and the ones I remember the most/learned the most from were the GM type. (One being a former Naval Captain and the other an old grumpy Swiss man.) The two I have in my head were actually the ones with the best horsemanship and always put the horses first and when handling my horse now I try and apply their teachings (or yellings lol.)

I’d prefer the: “WTH ARE YOU DOING!? YOU’RE RIDING LIKE A MONKEY HUMPING A FOOTBALL UP THERE… I KNOW YOU RIDE BETTER THAN THIS- I’VE SEEN IT… SO GET YOUR ^@&#&!&#!#&(#@( AND RIDE LIKE A PROFESSIONAL OR GET OFF MY HORSE!”

Than a: “Oh great job, but just a few things perhaps maybe just do this, and have fun, and remember this, and try that and you’re looking good kiddo…”

I think I am like OP… a masochist! lol.

[PaintedHunter]

[QUOTE=shojumpin;7357275]
To each their own!

I
I’d prefer the: “WTH ARE YOU DOING!? YOU’RE RIDING LIKE A MONKEY HUMPING A FOOTBALL UP THERE… I KNOW YOU RIDE BETTER THAN THIS- I’VE SEEN IT… SO GET YOUR ^@&#&!&#!#&(#@( AND RIDE LIKE A PROFESSIONAL OR GET OFF MY HORSE!”

Than a: “Oh great job, but just a few things perhaps maybe just do this, and have fun, and remember this, and try that and you’re looking good kiddo…”

.[/QUOTE]

If those two trainers had a kid, that would be my current trainer

[Happyhooves]

I grew up with instructors who were workmanlike, put horses first, but pleasant with the students. They pushed without being harsh and treated us barn kids fairly. My kid rides in a competitive program now, and it’s the same. What’s sad to me is to see some kids around us who’ve changed trainers, some who are in other new barns, finally leaving mean, belittling trainers. These trainers might think they’re nice and maybe are just immature, but they’re not; others are straight out belittling and mean. But they play mind games–some subtle, some not so subtle–playing the kids off each other, taking bad moods out on the kids, having inconsistent expectations, giving mixed signals to keep them guessing and unbalanced, etc. These kids are good riders…but they came out of those programs shattered. The new trainers are having to spend a great deal of valuable time restoring their confidence before they can move on. It makes me sad for the kids but it also hurts the sport.

[Soaponarope]

It’s absurd to suggest that because someone is a bastard they have a mainline to excellence.

I have had lots and lots of teachers in my life in riding, ballet, and in academia. Some of were fabulous and some were bullies. Do bullies achieve higher standards? I don’t think so. I think they lose students and opportunities. Usually they can afford to do so. That’s why riders have to be wary. Don’t be someone’s toy or the object lesson they’ve chosen to dole out that day.

Although people complain about political correctness as a sign of the apocalypse, I have to disagree. How do you define toughness? Are you tough because you are so desperate to please that you will accept someone calling you names like “dumb blonde” because it comes from the “great man”? Or are you tough because you have enough self respect not to pay for that kind of treatment?

Bullying is not tantamount to excellence and it is never necessary.