Stallion choice help please! Diamant, Komme Casall, who else??

[loveVoyage]

Good evening everyone,

First and foremost, I am so grateful for this forum. Though not an active user i find it is most helpful out of a lot of information that can be found online. I am a ‘gaining experience as i go along’ breeder. And have found that stallion owners and agents have an agenda so I do rely on the brilliant knowledge provided here to make some decisions and deductions.

I breed in UK so i am lucky in terms of what i can get but i do find horse and hound forum to not be as helpful about show jumper breeding.

If I still have your attenion I would love to get some suggestions for my mares.

I have 3 broodmares currently (4 if you count Embryo mare). 2 of them are pretty solidly decided for. 1 paid for and one awaiting the arrival of the current foal to make a decision. But seeing as i can get such educated advice here I would still include their info in this post for research purposes.

The mare I am struggling with at the moment is one that should be easiest as i know her so well as I used to compete her. She is a KWPN mare bred following dr Greves philosophy. Here is her pedigree:
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1964228/n-a
She was fiesty and sharp to compete and ride. Really quite talented but had a freak reaccuring injury stopping her reaching her potential. As a competition horse, though sharp, she had the right amount of fire. She never used it against the rider, gave it her all, and I (and top trainers and riders) thought a lot of her. I must point out that I evented at the time. She has had 2 fillies for me and both of them are sassy and sharp, very big personalities. Her 2019 filly by Goodtimes got very nice score at a foal show (8.1 from kwpn judges) but the negative comment was that she was a bit on the stockier side. The mare herself is toed in infront but it is due to poor trimming in early life and 2 fillies i have bred are correct. Apart from that she really is what I want to breed. She is 16.1, she moves well, she has scope, she is short, she is quick, she is athletic, she is brave, she is blood enough at 63%. I dont want a very big horse, I like a lighter type, a scopey 130-140 amateur friendly horse who can have a go at dressage is my goal. I would love for stallion suggestions for her as I had her booked in for Dominator Z but with current COVID 19 situation didnt want to drive her and a foal across the country for the AI (Zangersheide are extremely strict with Dominator) so i have taken her off the list. A decision i may live to regret…
I am now trying to come up with plan B. So far:

• Diamant de Semilly - I mean this guy is as close as you can get to a sure bet in breeding?
• Komme Casall - I think this young stallion is lovely. He seems to have the phenotype of my mare.

The next ones are decided for but I would LOVE opinions for future.

2 - Wendela B. She is an absolute dream of a mare for beginner breeder. She is ster graded with kwpn and has by now progeny competing at 120 in UK. She is an older type of warmblood with by Hold Up Premier x Recruut breeding. She throws size to her offspring and maybe not most beautiful heads. That being said, they all (i have 3 from her now) seem to have most beautiful minds, very trusting, confident, quiet, smart but a little inwradly stressy. She is going in foal to the beautiful Escape Z this year. She throws size, I want smaller, refining stallions. I have a Contendro yearling from her, he is refined, but still seems quite tall.

3 - Investment. What a name! A new addition to my herd. She is a posh girl Clinton x Heartbreaker x Calvados. From damline of Consul dl vie Z. She is small (how i like them) but absolutely beautiful. VDL stud have recommended Glasgow for her, who i love and she is currently in foal to a son of Glasgow so it bodes well.

4 - Chacco Blue x Jumbo mare. She has had an embryo foal in 2019 by Zinedine. Not to be put in foal currently as still in work, but emryo to be considered. The Zinedine colt is a Beautiful and relaxed person, moves loose and seems nice and gangly (think he will be taller that the mother and looks to move nicer than the sire) but does have a parrot mouth which is gutting… I know it skips generation, but cant find any info where in came from? The mare is extremely correct in every respect. Scopey, powerful BUT a bit too relaxed and a tad slow.

I am so thankful for anyone who replies. Educated, non-biased opinions are absolutely priceless!

Keep safe everyone,
Annie.

[fourfillies]

Your mare is lovely. Certainly you won’t go wrong with Diamant. Have you considered Chaqui Z? He doesn’t have the size of Dominator but might fit your bill. I’ve heard his get is amateur friendly. We have one coming 5 year old in our barn who is a very nice and easy to live around.

[loveVoyage]

Hi fourfillies!
Thank you for your reply and for kind words about my mare. I do think a lot of her and think she will breed some lovely foals, just need to slightly tone down her big opinions I havent looked into Chaqui Z, but a Chacco-Blue son could be a great shout! Thanks! Judging by my other mare who is by him and by what i have read/heard they seem to be very nice minds. Gosh, doesn’t Chacco stamp them! Just looked at Chaqui confirmation photo and he looks a lot like my Chacco mare.

How is the mouth of the 5yo at your barn? I am a little hesitant to breed Chacco, Zinedine, or Jumbo (eventing sire in UK) before i find out a little more about where did the parrot mouth come from in my yearling colt last year. Though of course it could be totally random.

It seems that Chaqui is available for Europe only through VDL…

[weixiao]

What a lovely mare!

My concern with Diamant is that he isn’t one that I’d think of to add length of leg and I wonder if you might get one that is a bit stockier like the Goodtimes filly.

I don’t know much about Komme Casall but he is lovely in the videos.

I’m no expert and so take these suggestions just as ideas being thrown out there based on horses I’ve seen and liked that I think might be in the type you’re looking at. Not sure if they are all available to you or more convenient than Dominator Z either, so I am really just throwing out some names here!

I recently saw a colt for sale by Quabri de L’isle that I REALLY liked. Such a nice type and such a super canter. He might be worth a look.

I’m Special de Muze is similar in type, to me, to Dominator Z and always seemed very rideable with a good brain, even as a young horse. Maybe taller than you’d like though?

Arezzo?

Vleut? I always loved his type and thought he looked very kind to ride. He isn’t very big but if that doesn’t bother you, he might be worth a look. I’ve liked the little bit I’ve seen of some of his older get and I’ve heard they they tend to have good minds, good canters, and are very brave across the board.

Cantona TN is a very young one and his oldest crop are just yearlings but I saw video of him recently and thought he looked lovely and he had really good scores at his inspection.

If you are interested in Chaqui Z, BVA auctions has some straws from him available. Not sure if you can bring them to the UK or not? I don’t know how that works. Prices looked good though last time I had a peek on there!

[loveVoyage]

Thank you for lovely suggestions!

I have also heard about Diamant sometimes throwing shorter legs so it is something that is playing on my mind, I am glad you voiced it too…

I LOVE Quabri! Hes been on my radar for a while, but at the moment only sold by straws, so a little hesitant to go there without knowing much of the quality? Do you know anything about his frozen?

And I’m Special de Muze was recommended to her 2 years ago by my stallion agents, I like him but as you said, maybe a bit big. (I know Domminator is too, but that horse is phenomenal).

She is currently in foal to Diacontinus, due end of May, so I have a bit more time to research and decide.

[weixiao]

@loveVoyage

Thank you for lovely suggestions!

I have also heard about Diamant sometimes throwing shorter legs so it is something that is playing on my mind, I am glad you voiced it too…

I LOVE Quabri! Hes been on my radar for a while, but at the moment only sold by straws, so a little hesitant to go there without knowing much of the quality? Do you know anything about his frozen?

And I’m Special de Muze was recommended to her 2 years ago by my stallion agents, I like him but as you said, maybe a bit big. (I know Domminator is too, but that horse is phenomenal).

She is currently in foal to Diacontinus, due end of May, so I have a bit more time to research and decide.

Unfortunately, I don’t know anything about the frozen quality for Quabri, but my old coach in Holland might. I will send him a message and ask.

Are you limited to KWPN licensed stallions? I might have a few other ideas if you aren’t.

I’d love to see your Diacontinus foal when it is born, if you were willing to share photos/info! He is one I have on my “one day, maybe” list for my Hanoverian mare (Graf Top I x Sir Caletto x Goldfasan).

[loveVoyage]

That would be awesome! Very handy to know about quality from independent parties.
Of course! I will post some photos when he (im hoping for a colt) is born.
I am not limited to KWPN but would prefer a KWPN or Hann stallion
Contendro x Graf Top would look good too on paper! I have a Contendro yearling from last year, very elastic and attractive, a tad flighty but seems to have settled now.

[Krallen]

Having had 3 Diamants that I bred and having a friend who has a couple, I wouldn’t count on him to add length of leg or make them amateur friendly, at least as young horses. Some can mature and be ammy friendly. Mine were all nut jobs and they were out of very kind and easy mares who other than the Diamants, have made good brained offspring. I’d use a son. I’ve had 35-40 foals and the Diamants were unquestionably the toughest.
I’m sure you may get some people who respond that have had wonderful and sweet ones but this was my experience.

[anon69112984]

I cannot see how things could ever go wrong using Komme Casall he is freakin’ amazing in so many ways.

Also he was the first hand choice for my mare. But since she is a maiden and corona came along with a presumed bad economy following I did go for an elderly stallion. You already have a foal by your mare and knows a bit more and I assume (maybe completely out of line) horse buyers in the UK are a little bit more loose and relaxed on using younger stallions than let’s say the ones living across the channel

[loveVoyage]

Yes definetly, a lot more go for young stallions here. I have nothing against using a younger stallion I like. I have a gorgeous 2yo by Diatendro who is now in USA, and he was only a 6yo. And Komme Casall is definetly something very special. I loved his breeding before i saw the horse and was so thrilled when he matched what I was hoping for. I would just like to know more about his character and what he passes on. Comme il faut never looked as an easy ride? As my mare seems to be very strong in passing her sharpness (odd thing to pass but both fillies are awful with a farrier, as was the dam as a youngster?? She is totally fine and easy now so foals wouldn’t have seen it). Her sharpness was as a competition horse “productive” type of sharpness but she certainly doesnt need any more added to her. So very useful to read Krallens first hand experience with Diamant.

[anon69112984]

A jumper friend of mine is using Central Park (brother of Komme Casall’s mother) by. Casall for the second year in a row now being so happy with the result of the first one

[weixiao]

@loveVoyage

Yes definetly, a lot more go for young stallions here. I have nothing against using a younger stallion I like. I have a gorgeous 2yo by Diatendro who is now in USA, and he was only a 6yo. And Komme Casall is definetly something very special. I loved his breeding before i saw the horse and was so thrilled when he matched what I was hoping for. I would just like to know more about his character and what he passes on. Comme il faut never looked as an easy ride? As my mare seems to be very strong in passing her sharpness (odd thing to pass but both fillies are awful with a farrier, as was the dam as a youngster?? She is totally fine and easy now so foals wouldn’t have seen it). Her sharpness was as a competition horse “productive” type of sharpness but she certainly doesnt need any more added to her. So very useful to read Krallens first hand experience with Diamant.

Unfortunately, since I think his first foals were born this year, I don’t know that there is much information out there to be had yet.

Ratina Z was not easy and Coronet Obolensky is not known for great temperament. So there is a possibility of some sharpness coming through. However, my (admittedly limited) experience with Comme all Faut offspring is that they had quite good temperaments and there are quite a few that are successful with juniors and in the hunters. And of course that is only part of the picture and Casall and Contender generally seem to be lines that produce very good temperaments. Komme Casall’s focus and temperament were very well remarked upon during his inspections, too.

You might reach out to Bosanko Sport Horses, they had a Komme Casall foal born recently, I think, and might be able to give you some preliminary information.

[loveVoyage]

Oh Central Park is rather gorgeous! But i thought from the videos he looks quite hot too?
Ive messaged Mark actually today to ask. As the dam is by Grandorado who I am also watching.

The Ratina Z and Cornet do seem like a tricky horse to ride… I will have to be careful.

Does anyone know much about Cantos? Love the Contender x Goodtimes mix.

[AB_eventing]

Another one you could look into would be jaguar mail, maybe a bit more eventer targeted than you’re looking for but he did go to the olympics for showjumping in 2008. He is a selle Francis but is comprised of almost only thoroughbred lines so should definitely lighten up your mare.

[loveVoyage]

I saw Jaguar Mail at a stallion show and he was lovely, so sound at his age too, but he is a big horse! And few peoples youngsters that I know are on a larger side. I may be totally wrong here, but I sort of disregarded him because of his size? I know that a lot of stallions are tall but not all are large (hopefully that makes sense). Do you know any by Jaguar? What are they like temperament wise? This mare doesnt need more tb sharpness :lol:

[weixiao]

I love Jaguar Mail but from what I’ve seen and what New Normandy Farm says about him, I don’t know if he is the cross you want. Good canters and good brains but he does add size and they say that as he is tall and big bodied he suits compact, midsize to small mares. If you wanted to add size I think he would be a nice option but since you don’t, I think you could end up with something taller and longer than you would prefer.

I could be wrong, however! Just my $0.02.

[loveVoyage]

@weixiao

I’d love to see your Diacontinus foal when it is born, if you were willing to share photos/info! He is one I have on my “one day, maybe” list for my Hanoverian mare (Graf Top I x Sir Caletto x Goldfasan).

Hey!
Just remembered you asked to see Diacontinus foal. It’s another filly and she’s stunning! Though a tad fiesty 🙊

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[weixiao]

What a lovely girl, congratulations!

[Anne]

I’ve seen Komme Casall in person and he is lovely.

[anon69112984]

@Anne

I’ve seen Komme Casall in person and he is lovely.

I met an offspring the other week and she was small but a stunner <3