Stallion Recommendations for Trakehner Mare

I have a Trakehner mare who is by Butow (Mahagoni) out of a mare by Martini. I am searching for the perfect stallion to breed her to in hopes to produce an upper level eventer. She was an upper level eventer who has incredible scope and beautiful movement but was very hot and difficult under saddle. She is 16 hands, has beautiful conformation, with a long top line and very refined look.

I would like to breed her to a stallion that will add size and rideability as well as add to her scope and beautiful movement. Since she is so hot I am trying to avoid anything with a lot of TB although the stallion must throw something with a decent amount of blood. I LOVE the European bloodlines and think that she would mix well with a Dutch Warmblood (or similar breeding). My #1 pick right now is VDL Dakar (Cardento x Nimmerdor) but I would love to hear other opinions!

She is a 17 year old maiden mare (vet has given her the ok in every way to be bred) so the stallion must have very good motility. I am willing to do fresh cooled or frozen semen so long as it is great quality. Must be available in the US and be reasonably priced.

Thanks for your recommendations!!

Tatendrag - Big, young but doing very well at eventing; just got his Performance Bronze at it; http://www.royalpalmfarm.com/ http://www.emeraldacrestk.com/
Windfall - Proven and producing it; may not improve on mare’s size though;
Abdullah - Big, proven and deceased but good frozen can still be had but may be dicey considering your mare is a 17 year old maiden. That and quirkiness of temperament may be cause for pause.
There is also Songline now to consider at Michael Pollard’s Chatsworth Stud: http://chatsworthstud.com/songline/

Others to consider:
Riverman (Proven many times over; only Frozen available now I think)
Cicera’s Icewater (Older but still fertile and available via fresh)

If it didn’t “have” to be a Trak, I would breed to Routinier. He reminds me of Peron, who was a Mahagoni bred stallion. Type to type. I think he would be a good outcross stallion. He has a good reputation for great temperament.

If you’d like Trakehner, and want to breed for eventing… Have a look at Titulus. He sired some very exciting eventing prospects. He is in NA, imported from Germany after successful completion of his SPT. Might not add size, but would fit most of the rest of your wish list. There’s foals from him both from frozen and cooled transported semen. Good luck in your search :slight_smile:

I would definitely consider breeds besides Trakehners! Thanks for the suggestions!

There is something to be said for sticking with the same (closed) breed book as you are more likely to come up with known qualities. Breeding for a hybrid can be difficult, because who knows what traits will be passed unless you have a real “stamping”/dominant sire or dam. (And the trakehners are having a resurgence in eventing!)

I love Tatendrag (young. big precocious beautiful boy) and Tzigane (beautiful and proven event sire). I thought i read Songline (a brillant boy) might be gelded sometime in the future so if he is on the list you might have to hurry along on that.

You might try Popeye K.

[QUOTE=omare;7507573]
I thought i read Songline (a brillant boy) might be gelded sometime in the future so if he is on the list you might have to hurry along on that.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it was mentioned on Eventing Nation that 2014 is Songline’s last year as a stallion. http://eventingnation.com/home/chatsworth-stud-aims-to-take-sporthorse-breeding-to-new-heights/

I’m a fan of the stallion omare mentioned, Tatendrang and Tzigane. Tzigane also has a coming 5 year old son Semper Fidelis.

I wouldn’t use Popeye K for an eventer. I know you want to avoid hot, but I’d be careful that you don’t have too LITTLE blood, since your goal is an UL eventer.

STA, I was surprised to read your recommendation of Popeye K, because I thought I would be the only one to recommend him!

My wonderful horse is by Popeye K and out of an Anglo Trak. It is a superb match and meets absolutely all your criteria, except the “reasonably priced” part. I believe that Popeye K (by Voltaire) is quite spendy now, although I do not know how much.

My guy has everything you want in your foal. You could not do better than to try the same cross.

From what I’ve heard, if cooling down a hot horse is a big consideration, Windfall is not the way to go. If you stay within Traks, inbreeding is also a consideration. But you could breed to Sea Accounts xx and be good to go as far as registration is concerned. He’s done 4th level dressage and has gone back to eventing with good success, although he hasn’t gone Advanced yet. He took several years off from eventing to do dressage, so it’s not as if he hasn’t got what it takes. He would give you the blood that is prized in UL horses.

All TBs do not pass on hot.

Might consider an ISH - Clover Cliste by Clover Hill (might have to scroll down list to him). I’ve only heard great things about his temperament. Gives you a bit of Irish which is common in UL eventers. http://www.idhs.ca/IDHSC%20Stallion%20book%202013%20v2.pdf

As far as Irish goes, what about Pallas Digion?
http://acornhillfarm.com/pallas_digion.html

Foal would probably be unregisterable, though, since he has not been activated with the North American Irish registry.

Although they don’t mention it, he was the sire of Daisy Dick’s great 4* horse, Spring Along Time, who accumulated more lifetime BE eventing points that any horse before Lenamore (who was only 15.2).

However, he’s ancient.

I like Dakar and the Dutch/Hols horses a lot. My mare is 15 this year and my vet who works with frozen in addition to fresh said that with a mare in the mid teens, trying to get her bred via frozen can be dicey and expensive. Not that it’s impossible, but the odds do tend to be less in your favor, so maybe consult with your vet about your mare and frozen and the attendant costs before heading down that path, if you haven’t already.

Likely, you will have better luck with fresh, particularly from a youngish stallion. As to temperament, it just depends on what your goals are, if you’re breeding for another upper level eventer, a certain amount of grit in the temperament seems to be necessary which doesn’t make them the easiest horses to ride of course.

[QUOTE=horsetales;7508759]
Might consider an ISH - Clover Cliste by Clover Hill (might have to scroll down list to him). I’ve only heard great things about his temperament. Gives you a bit of Irish which is common in UL eventers. http://www.idhs.ca/IDHSC%20Stallion%20book%202013%20v2.pdf[/QUOTE]

I’ve always liked Clover Cliste but that might be too much draught if the OP is looking for a really good upper level horse. Clover Cliste is more than half Irish Draught; he would need to be crossed with more TB blood, in my opinion, to produce a TOP level eventer.

I know you said preferably no TBs, but…Sea Accounts is a good suggestion; if you’re interested in staying with Trakehners, there’s also Sea Lion who is a successful 3* horse. He is full TB, but I love his attitude cross country; he looks like a very enjoyable horse to ride. He certainly has the performance record as well, if you think his conformation would complement your mare. I also love my yearling by Coconut Grove (posthumously approved ATA); he is SUPER quiet and moves really well. The mare produces good brains and good movers, but he is the quietest of her four offspring I have bred/seen.

Speaking of Trakehners…There is also the interesting new 3 year old stallion at Chatsworth Stud, Rusticus. I’m really interested to see how this guy develops; he is by the fantastic TB showjumping stallion, Favoritas, so lots of TB blood in there without being full TB. Also at Chatsworth is Halimey Go whose sire is an Anglo Arab; he is moving up the ranks (currently eventing/winning at Intermediate). If you have a modern type mare, he might be a nice cross.

Or what about Grafenstolz? He is a Trakehner with the performance record himself (to 3* level, FEI dressage and puissance jumper competition) and numerous offspring at the FEI levels of eventing. I have not heard that they are easy, but they are performing.

Buddenbrock is available in North America and has produced top dressage horses and eventers, and is known for throwing versatile horses with good rideability.

Stiletto also has a daughter currently competing 3* (Copycat Chloe). He himself has shown 2* level eventing, FEI dressage and in the jumpers. I wouldn’t think he’d add movement, but he shouldn’t hurt your mare’s already good movement. He also seems to be producing good-minded offspring, although I haven’t encountered any personally.

Since you’re willing to consider frozen, what about Chilli Morning? He is now available in the US; can’t get much more proven at 4* level than Chilli (we’ll forgive him for the little blip at Rolex :wink: )! Certainly has the scope and the movement. He hasn’t had the chance to produce much yet, though, and he was passed on to WFP from Mary King because he was too strong for her, so maybe more “horse” than you’re looking for…

Future Gravitas (by Grafenstolz) and Future Illusion (by Fleetwater Opposition) are both new young event stallions with great pedigrees available through EMCO. Since your mare is a maiden, though, you might want to consider a stallion that is producing good event types. I would suggest Riverman because I do love him, but he is not likely to quiet down your mare. :wink:

Also at Hilltop, though, are a couple of nice looking young (again, unproven) stallions: particularly Tresor Mail (by Jaguar Mail) and Ulgar Mail (by Corrado I) are worth checking out as both have high % of TB blood. Tresor Mail, especially, is geared towards eventing and has been successful in the Young Event competitions.

Have a look at the WBFSH rankings: Quite Easy and Contendro I are in the top 40 ranked stallions based on offspring eventing at FEI and have been bred to in NA quite a bit. Both tend to produce good brains, jump and good movement.

Probably not Stiletto due to doubling up on the Martini breeding. I owned a Stiletto son and while not hot, he was quirky and I’ve heard that some are, FWIW.

[QUOTE=Tradewind;7508832]
I’ve always liked Clover Cliste but that might be too much draught if the OP is looking for a really good upper level horse. Clover Cliste is more than half Irish Draught; he would need to be crossed with more TB blood, in my opinion, to produce a TOP level eventer.

Clover Cliste - Clover Hill was 1/2 TB and CC is out of a mare that was 1/4 ID at most http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/clover+cliste

Another ISH is Flagmounts Freedom who is a 2* horse and I believe has some offspring in the UL or getting close. http://leaningoaksfarm.com/leaning_oaks_farm_003.htm

I’m really surprised that the mare is hot with Mahagoni and Martini. Both of those stallions tended to throw incredible rideability for the amateur.

If you want some blood, a decent stud price, and more rideability check out Tagaelen. This is me riding my extremely green Tagaelen mare.

http://youtu.be/ugrl-YqBg2Y
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadytrake/13595066884/

http://americantrakehner.com/stallions/Tagaelen.asp

I would also give a vote for Virginian Sky

http://americantrakehner.com/stallions/VirginianSky.asp

This is one of his babies (my mare’s 1/2 sister) now a yearling.

http://youtu.be/2giFdgfKSZA

[QUOTE=FatCatFarm;7508907]
Probably not Stiletto due to doubling up on the Martini breeding. I owned a Stiletto son and while not hot, he was quirky and I’ve heard that some are, FWIW.[/QUOTE]

Ah, good point. That is A LOT of Martini; I wasn’t factoring that in, clearly.

What about Tagaelen? http://tagaelen.webs.com/tagaelen.htm

I have a T baby and he has a really quiet steady temperment. A 10+ jump, nice movement.

Some good suggestions with Tate and Galen. Both have good temperaments and Tate seems to add size Galen has more under saddle (to be expected given age difference) and owners love their temperaments. Taz is frozen only and while we’ve had 100% conception both here and in EU w/frozen, a 17yo maiden may take longer to get in foal and that c/b expensive with frozen. Tzigane’s approved son Semper Fidelis is getting a lot of interest from UL eventing mare owners on the West Coast where he competes b/c of his success and excellent temperament. His foals show size, leg length and exceptional movement but since he turns 5 April 29th he only has a few foals to look at and o/c nothing under saddle.

You commented the mare had a longer topline. Is that something you’d like the stallion to help correct? Photos of the mare would be helpful.