Stallions Linebred to Ramzes**PICS of Mare Added

[Kyzteke]

I have a mare who was sired by Werigo; a grandson of Ramzes. I am a BIG Ramzes fan and I would like to put as much of his blood into the breeding as possible and as close up as possible.

But I would prefer the blood come from the Holsteiner line rather than the Oldenburg/Westphalian line…so I’m looking at Holsteiners.

Any suggestions from Holstein breeders? Other than the blood line (a stallion with multiple crosses to Ramzes as close up as possible), I also need a stallion who produces a good walk & canter (her trot is already great) and some height.

The stallion does not need to be approved Holsteiner, but DOES need to be approved by one of the major registries (no AWS) OR have a really outstanding performance history in eventing or jumping.

Would prefer fresh/chilled (a stallion here in the US), but would consider frozen if it has a great rep for conception.

Oh…and yeah, no HOMOZYGOUS greys. I’ll take a 50-50 chance, but that’s my limit…:winkgrin:

[sixpoundfarm]

Contendro I

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=sixpoundfarm;7189041]
Contendro I[/QUOTE]

He does not produce height…

[omare]

Roller Coaster has two crosses http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/roller+coaster2
and he has an approved son Ramzes WKT that adds in at least one more cross
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=RAMZES+WKT&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=

I am not sure if they are still available.

(oops they are gray!)

[HunterRider992]

Ocean I?

[Stoney447]

It is getting harder and harder to find Ramzes close up in pedigrees for the obvious reason that he is quite old. Of course, to bring in a lot of this blood one would initially look to sons of Capitol I such as Calato (who has Ramzes represented 3 times in 5 generations). However, he is grey so he does not fit the bill.
Maybe look at Contifax? He is a Contender son from the famous stemm 776 and is quite a talented jumper.

[TwinGates]

Not Holsteiner but Tzigane Pb http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tzigane3

[Nod_Hill_Farm]

One that comes to mind is C-Indoctro. Although more used by KWPN, he is approved Holst.

Dark bay son of Capitol I, so that double Ramzes is as close as anything you’ll find these days, I imagine. He has certainly produced many fine jumpers. Frozen, but from the number of offspring that I have seen at keurings in the US it appears there is no negative to that.

The KWPN breeding stats don’t show that he adds height, but the ones I have seen have been 16-3 to 17, quite full sized. But without knowing the dams I don’t know what he brought to those.

Curious, if you want more Ramzes “influence”, why not look at grays? I would think bays would be more from the mother-line than from the sire-line.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=TwinGates;7189358]
Not Holsteiner but Tzigane Pb http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tzigane3[/QUOTE]

Actually, I HAVE looked at Tzigane and considered him seriously. Although he only has one cross to Ramzes, it IS fairly close up. But I’m still looking…:yes:.

He IS a lovely stallion for sure. But the mare is Werigo/PB Arab (hence the need for height…the result of that breeding is only 15.1h), what would be the registration possibilities?

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Nod Hill Farm;7189373]

Curious, if you want more Ramzes “influence”, why not look at grays? I would think bays would be more from the mother-line than from the sire-line.[/QUOTE]

Well, I’m not sure if the color makes a difference in the way you are saying…but perhaps.

It IS a prejudice and maybe I’ll change my mind, but between having had a bad experience with melanomas on a horse and greys being kind of a beetch to sell, I tend to stay away from them. Rather embarrassed to admit it, but it’s a fact…:o

[omare]

Roller Coaster frozen still shows up on the Select Breeders Services listing - -http://www.selectbreeders.com/stallions/1151-roller-coaster

I had been looking at him or a son for an Abdullah mare because of the repeated anglo arab influence of Ramses. Another approved son Rolling Rock has at least three crosses to Ramses (also was owned by Elaine Decanio).

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=omare;7189756]
Roller Coaster frozen still shows up on the Select Breeders Services listing - -http://www.selectbreeders.com/stallions/1151-roller-coaster

I had been looking at him or a son for an Abdullah mare because of the repeated anglo arab influence of Ramses. Another approved son Rolling Rock has at least three crosses to Ramses (also was owned by Elaine Decanio).[/QUOTE]

I am the breeder of Rollig Roc (Roller Coaster / Cantus / Ladykiller xx) …he is now gelded due to too much testosterone in the show ring. Todd Minikus is currently riding him.

[stoicfish]

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=647028

[mareslave]

BWP has a number of Ramzes descendents

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7189993]
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=647028[/QUOTE]
besides Capone I, Rebozo, Magic Darco and Mescalero come to mind. If you’re willing to bring in a tank from across the pond, you’ve got more options, but you knew that already.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=mareslave;7190021]
besides Capone I, Rebozo, Magic Darco and Mescalero come to mind. If you’re willing to bring in a tank from across the pond, you’ve got more options, but you knew that already.[/QUOTE]

Not willing to go to all of that; but would consider buying proven frozen from a distributor like A-1 Performance or Fox Fire Farms.

And please note…I’ve sort of backed out of the NO GREY thing. KIND OF…

The mare is bay, so if I breed to a heterzygous grey, I have a 50-50 chance of getting a solid. I’m willing to risk it for the right stallion. So, let’s change that to “No HOMOZYGOUS Grey Stallions.”

Most important is that the stallion has a history of producing or improving the following (or at least MOST of the following): better walk/canter, most foals are 16+hh even out of 15 h mares, good brain, proven at the upper levels of either jumping OR eventing (or produces such), strong mare line. A good history of soundness is also important, although that’s a tough one to determine unless you have some personal knowledge of the stallion.

Oh, and she doesn’t need any shorter legs, although they fit her. But a stallion that is abit leggier rather than stocky would be a better fit, I think, and might end up producing a “fancier” foal…always easier to sell.

And then the Ramzes thing, of course…

Non-grey a bonus…but I’m going to be brave and not worry about that just yet.

I know people always ask about plans. If I got a filly and she was deemed quality, I would keep her to breed on. A colt would get brain-surgery and sold. So the Market must be heeded to some degree…

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=omare;7189187]
Roller Coaster has two crosses http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/roller+coaster2
and he has an approved son Ramzes WKT that adds in at least one more cross
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=RAMZES+WKT&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=

I am not sure if they are still available.

(oops they are gray!)[/QUOTE]

And in both cases one of their crosses to Ramzes is through Rigoletto, which is also the source of the mare’s Ramzes blood. Not sure I want to linebreed to Rigoletto…

[rodawn]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7189014]
I have a mare who was sired by Werigo; a grandson of Ramzes. I am a BIG Ramzes fan and I would like to put as much of his blood into the breeding as possible and as close up as possible.

But I would prefer the blood come from the Holsteiner line rather than the Oldenburg/Westphalian line…so I’m looking at Holsteiners.

Any suggestions from Holstein breeders? Other than the blood line (a stallion with multiple crosses to Ramzes as close up as possible), I also need a stallion who produces a good walk & canter (her trot is already great) and some height.

The stallion does not need to be approved Holsteiner, but DOES need to be approved by one of the major registries (no AWS) OR have a really outstanding performance history in eventing or jumping.

Would prefer fresh/chilled (a stallion here in the US), but would consider frozen if it has a great rep for conception.

Oh…and yeah, no HOMOZYGOUS greys. I’ll take a 50-50 chance, but that’s my limit…:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

So, I did a “test-mating” requesting a duplicated line breeding to Ramzes in 3rd or 4th generation, plus Ramzes within the 5th generation. Got 198 Active Stallions from all around the world, a few in USA, but most are in Europe.

Here’s the link, have fun making your choices! From here, you can finesse your selection, but this is a good start.

FWIW, very few Stallion Owners in Europe are testing whether homo/heterozygous color of anything, let alone grey.

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?

[DownYonder]

I am not sure if Noteworthy is still breeding, but he is by Ramiro out of a Ramiro granddaughter, and he is bay in color. He is Dutch WB, not Holsteiner, though. Approved Oldenburg (OHBS/GOV), maybe also other registries.

[sixpoundfarm]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;7190119]
I am not sure if Noteworthy is still breeding, but he is by Ramiro out of a Ramiro granddaughter, and he is bay in color. He is Dutch WB, not Holsteiner, though. Approved Oldenburg (OHBS/GOV), maybe also other registries.[/QUOTE]
He is still available, not sure however that they are still collecting for this year.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=sixpoundfarm;7190171]
He is still available, not sure however that they are still collecting for this year.[/QUOTE]

Oh, heavens!! This isn’t for THIS year…I’m already looking for 2014!:lol:

I have all my stallions picked except for the one for this mare and I’ve found that sometimes you can get a good discount if you pay the SO the full amt. agreed on waaaay early…like before Jan. 1.

So I’m shopping now…