I jump judged at Heritage, and for the first two divsions, (very few horses,) I had to sit in the sun. This was after the torrential rain of the morning. I was in the sun for less than 2 hours, and I had stupidly forgotten a hat, and I got really sun burned. I can’t imagine what it felt like in boots and coats. July is usually miserably hot. There are a lot of schooling events though.
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Maybe some of the riders want to qualify for championships of some sort?
Not a horrible thing to want.
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I spoke to your concern about about “local venues already hav[ing] trouble filling their recognized rosters even at BN.” Your words. No extrapolating required.
Its great that your local venue offers two schooling shows a year. Not everywhere has that (as another poster mentioned as well). The entry fee difference between starter and BN locally is between $15 and $25 depending on the event. Of course there will be more associated fees (and probably eventually a required USEA membership).
If you’re looking at from a region that has great local venues that offer year ends awards with $90 entry fees, recognizing starter probably makes less sense. But if you’re looking at it from a region where doing starter is maybe $30 cheaper a show but you’re not eligible for year end awards or AECs…recognizing starter is more welcome. I had friends compete in starter at Area 1 Championships who would have loved to have a championship for that division.
I know a lot of people in my area of the world are mixed - like many on this thread. I think it probably is a USEA money grab, but I also think at this point is makes sense and has enough benefits to justify it too. I just don’t see it as wholly negative, and think it was largely inevitable. I do sincerely hope they continue to not require USEA membership, but am not holding my breath on that one.
In that same reply you’re quoting, I also said this above:
I was referring to all divisions which is why I specifically said “across divisions”. Even if you only focused on that one sentence you quoted, “even at BN” does not preclude the other divisions. I thought this was self-explanatory.
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At one of our local Venues, the park does not allow permanent structures so the stalls are all temp stalls. These have been increasingly difficult to acquire. Order them in Jan and the company is out of business in May. My venue has CONSIDERED starting to run their shows as an ODE. The stall was $200 so my fees were $475 for this event. Was going to not get a stall as I live local but I do love the access to a day stall which was great this time as we had lightening, hail and heavy rain. An ODE would cut it down to $275 and we may have enough spaces at local barns to accommodate then out of towners at $50 a night but still half the price. We lose money on the stalls. Venue said they were eating $30 a stall to keep the price down. The other local venue has perm stalls and have for years and years but charge $225 per stall which is insane! A venue in Iowa went to an ODE this year also.
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I think making Starter recognized is a bit of a shame.
Right now the venues offering this in Area II are charging ~$100 less for Starter than BN (and no USEA Starter/D&M fees).
While I do think there is value in standardizing the level, part of the appeal to me is that there isn’t a record. Starter is about getting out in a show environment and giving the horse a good confidence building experience - I don’t really want those on a green horse’s record.
For me, I think this will just mean we go to more unrecognized shows for the early experiences. Which is a shame, because I really love that the recognized venues offer this and it makes it a lot easier to take along the green horses (vs. go to a different show altogether).
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I think it’s great if that’s the plan! Which is why I have shown recognized at starter/BN/N.
But these coaches/riders (in a specific example) do not attend championships & I think that the coaches must make more money from recognized, so they do not offer the schooling shows as an option (with same courses) to their clients to decide. And then, the parents footing the bill do not know there is another option and the price eventually runs them off. Just my feelings about one of the particular situations in my head.
(Typically these riders end up moving barns before getting beyond BN, either switching disciplines fully, or to another coach. Honestly I think it would help this coach in particular if she offered schooling show options, she may hold onto riders past the lesson horse stage, or may not? Maybe something else is the reason why the riders leave? I don’t know, just on the outside looking in)
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Cindy, I discovered eventing in 1978 and began involving myself with MACTA shortly after that. I have fumed at Longview getting all the love and Heritage hasn’t changed in 40 years except more and prettier jumps. I realize that all horse groups contribute to Longview and they have patrons, but why in God’s name can’t we even get better water and electricity, let alone stabling? I realize the football stadiums down the road get more usage, but if they put in a few things, like stabling and a ring, dare I say bathrooms? More groups could use it?
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I wonder (rambling thought), if making starter recognized will cause some venues to start offering something below starter?
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I believe so. I’ve already seen starter and intro offered, so wouldn’t be surprised to see more start to offer intro (or whatever name you want to call it).
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Absolutely a true statement. Without the starter and BN entries, the T and above won’t be able to run. It would be fiscally irresponsible for my event to ignore any possibility of increasing revenue streams AND encouraging new event riders. It is a win-win for us!
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Do you think the increasing reliance on trainers has anything to do with this change? Look at the hunters; the low-level ones go along to very expensive A shows if they want their trainer’s help, and the A shows have low divisions for them. Is the same thing happening in eventing?
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I’m kind of of two minds–on one hand, if more venues offer this level, I think it’s a great thing to enable people to get horses off-property and the competitive experience, especially given there are fewer opportunities to school cross-country. It may also encourage people not to be so eager to jump into BN before they are ready. Ideally, you should be schooling above the level you’re competing at.
On the other hand, I did kind of hate the pressure I’ve seen people in the h/j world to start competing at rated shows over crossrails, especially if they were new riders (versus green horses getting used to pressure). A rider at that level often isn’t even sure if they want to compete and the atmosphere of a rated versus schooling show can be intimidating, but barns find it easier to take everyone to more expensive shows, versus splitting up attention between rated shows for more advanced and well-heeled competitors and schooling, low-key shows for beginners or those without a lot of cash.
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There are venues which have offered grasshopper–with a simple walk-trot dressage test, cantering over cross-country for time, and stadium as poles.
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Around here there is typically a 2’3 division that mostly matches the specs for Starter and then an 18" division that does a walk trot dressage test and has an xc that is all very small logs and simple solid fences (no water or ditches or banks). Often the xc is somewhat contained to a single smaller field as well. None of our unrecognized events are timed although they used to be, mostly because it requires fewer volunteers/less training.
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These are the same questions I asked and was told HP will not allow them put anything in permanent like a bathroom or sand ring. I argue that a sand arena is not a permanent structure and can be dismantled. A permanent bathroom would only benefit the park. The water complex bugs the shit out of me. I asked about putting a drop in or something and dragging the thing out putting in a better base like Longview which drains it every schooling. Try to get your young horse in a body of water with turtles and frogs hopping and floating all over! I tried hand dragging it last year and bought some pond algae killer in it which helped for a season. We don’t have thousands of frogs and turtles floating like we used to. I know Kristina’s dad has brought his own equipment in and done a lot of the work we see now. I know they are trying but can only do so much.
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Can you offer something and call it a different name and bypass the USEA? Like Intro or something? Just saw someone suggested Grasshopper.
@Janet probably knows best but I think you can offer unrecognized “test” divisions at any event and they can be a dressage test, CT, full HT, just xc etc. I was told years ago that you can’t offer the exact same division both unrecognized and recognized (so not recognized Starter and unrecognized Starter for example) but I’m not sure if that’s an actual rule or an interpretation. A recognized HT locally used to run recognized BN-P Saturday and unrecognized 18"/2’3 and recognized CTs for the higher levels Sunday and I was told this then. It seems likely that the recognized divisions might not fill if people have much cheaper alternatives.
Kristina’s dad is a great guy. You do not know how lucky you are/were if you have or had enthusiastic parents.
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I agree.
