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Starting a breeding program as a poor student

Hi everybody, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the best way to get a breeding program started. Currently I am a poor student just starting a 3 year vet med residency program, and my ultimate horsey goal is to have a WB breeding program. I do have some money tucked away that could potentially go towards buying a mare or a filly now, and I don’t have any significant debts or loans.

My initial thought was to buy a well-bred weanling or yearling that I could raise up over the next 3 years, show a little bit after I finish my residency, and then eventually breed. But I definitely have champagne tastes on a beer budget, so I don’t know if I can realistically get a horse that will be “flashy” enough in the pedigree department to really be a foundation for a future breeding program if that makes sense.

I’m also considering the idea of buying an older broodmare that I’m not worried about having a potential riding career with, and breeding her to produce the young filly I ultimately want. This also comes with the option to sell colts or continue breeding the mare after I get the one that I “want” or whatever. Only catch would be that the broodmare would likely be very “domestic” bloodlines, i.e. not a glowing pedigree with lots of performance history, but I could potentially breed her to something a bit more exciting with frozen semen.

My other option is to wait until I get a real job, lol, but my current show horse is 16 already and the rest of my horses have now been retired for various ailments so I am keen to get something started so I will have a horse to ride/show in a few years time. I also much prefer bringing up my own riding horses from a young age, so the idea of buying a 4+ year old to ride after my residency isn’t super appealing to me.

Totally open to any opinions, just wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone had any thoughts!

Are you proficient at equine repro ultrasound, or will you be paying client vet fees? Even if you can do the work, there are substantial start up costs in the ultrasound machine, a frozen semen tank, etc. What if your mare needs a C section or you have a septic foal?

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I actually have a fairly substantial line of credit for things like that, as well as a well off father in case of absolutely dire financial emergency, so there are definitely options. I get heavily discounted vet fees through my vet college so I will probably be using their services rather than doing it myself, as you said the startup costs can be pretty prohibitive!

Re: the line of credit, I’m also not terribly worried about putting large expenses on it because as mentioned, I have minimal debts, my tuition and living costs are paid by scholarships, and my job prospects pay quite well so it would be paid off very quickly. It’s basically there to use in case of equine emergency until I get a job.

I purchased my broodmare as a poor young person. I only intended to breed a horse for myself. Which is what I did. While I was lucky and produced a very nice colt, he isn’t my ideal ride. I love him to pieces and we get along well, I might have been better served to buy something already on the ground so that I could pick a more suitable temperament! My boy is a sensitive ride, quite ideal for dressage but a wee bit overwhelming for my amateur self. I went the older broodie route and picked a complimentary stallion. I greatly appreciated the fact that she was an experienced mom.

A friend of mine bought a high class two year old filly to be the foundation of her small breeding program. 5 goals later she still doesn’t have her ideal riding horse and recently imported one.

No matter what age mare you decide on, put your money into the very best mare you can find/afford. It’s much (much!) easier to breed top foals out of a top mare.

In your shoes ‘I’ would look for a proven broodmare for your chosen discipline, even if she’s a bit older. You’d have an idea of what she produces and what lines she crosses well with, and if you’re really lucky she could be carrying a filly when purchased.

Assuming you want to breed for the market, a proven mare will also have offspring competing, which is free advertising if they do well.

If you find a nice mare now and she breeds back for you, by the time you finish your residency you could have a 3 yo to start, a 2 yo and a weanling to keep or sell. (That’s if the breeding gods smile on you, of course!)

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Perhaps breeding sport ponies or Welsh ponies might be slightly cheaper for start up costs? My concern with breeding an older broodmare, is that the one you can afford may not be of high enough value to be worth breeding. I would prefer to see an older mare that is free from arthritis and injury being bred, then an older mare with severe arthritis or other health issues. Plus who pays for the mares retirement, when she can no longer produce foals?

Another option would be to get a stallion prospect and focus solely on training and showing him so you can promote him as a stallion? It would probably be cheaper to keep one stallion, then a couple mares. Then you don’t have to worry about the cost of raising the babies or breeding the mare. Just the cost of boarding the stallion and having him collected.

One big problem with this is that unless the stallion is something very special and has an exceptional career behind him, most people aren’t interested in breeding with them. With the ease of frozen semen these days, having a commercially viable stallion is very difficult unless you have very deep pockets to import something and an even deeper pocket to put them with a top rider to give them the exposure they need. If you don’t have your own property, boarding a stallion is a whole other issue as well!

Do you want to ride the eventual horses you’re breeding? Or simply sell them and try and make a viable business?

Breeding for yourself to ride is different market to breeding for what is going to sell for good money.

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I’m a weirdo when it comes to WB breeding. It seems that many WB breeders do not see a performance career on a well-bred mare with good conformation to be that important. I disagree. Many other disciplines, including race horses prefer to use a “proven” mare so to speak. I came from a QH background. My father never bred a mare that was a dud in the show pen. If you are cash poor, I’d wait unless you want to raise an unproven mare, breed her and hope for the best. Others may disagree with my type of philosophy, so take this with a grain of salt!

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Re: purchasing an older broodmare

Not a WB, but for TB racing… talk about champagne tastes on a beer budget, as even the “cheap” stallions stand for thousands more than the most expensive sport horses.

My plan going in wasn’t to buy an older broodmare, but I came across a 19 year old fertile mare with a foal at her side. The price was too good to be true for her resume and pedigree. Her owner was a repro vet and was really transparent with me, which gave me confidence. My goal was only to get one, maybe two foals from her, so 19 didn’t seem unreasonable. It seemed like a sure thing.

COTH told me, “don’t do it.”

COTH was right.

I hemorrhaged money into her, far more than I ever expected or intended to spend. I never got a foal out of her.

With that said, I don’t regret it. I learned a ton from her. Having such a good producer got me in at top Kentucky farms and access to stallions I never dreamed of considering on my budget. It’s going to be hard to have a lesser mare after owning her. But all that expense set me way back with my breeding goals.

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My thought is that performance riders are often different people from breeders. A mare with good bloodlines and performance record who is injured and no longer able to compete might sell for a reasonable price to someone with breeding interests.

OP doesn’t say what discipline she wants her WB programme to be aimed towards. That makes a difference in which strategy to follow.

As a former Welsh breeder, the actual breeding part really isn’t any cheaper with the ponies vs. the horses if you’re breeding for quality and sport as well as the appeal to the crowds (fads, window dressing, etc). I focused on acquiring well bred, sound of mind and body mares that I tested in sport and trainability before deciding they were breeding material. Mother tested, mother approved as they say. I owned my stallions as well. This is another point. While it is often ‘less expensive’ on the upkeep side to keep one horses vs. 3-4 when foals start coming, keeping a stallion is no inexpensive endeavor especially when you start factoring in campaigning in order to get others to book to him. Breeding is NOT inexpensive regardless which end you focus on. The cost of boarding stallions can also come at a premium as well, depending on your area.

I will say though that I did manage to do it on a budget and easily sold out of all of mine that I produced except the one I chose to keep and am competing at second/schooling third level. The keys for me - I’ve always owned my own place with full facilities (ie, easily keep stallions, mares and youngstock turned out regularly and safely as well as lighted arenas, round pens, etc). I could start, back and train all of mine including my stallions and young stock. I never paid a trainer or someone else to train, show or handle them. I am a vet; so, reproduction costs were minimal for me since I owned the stallion(s) and mares. I did take my guys to the stallion station for collecting in order to ship semen since I decided not to go to the expense of setting up a dummy et al; but, I was given professional discounts and had stallions who you could easily split collections up into to multiple shipments per collection and get mares settled. As to how I got started, I first struck out on my own after school trying to develop a plan and direction gradually acquiring horses. The real ‘break’ I got was finding a partner who purchased a stallion prospect I wanted and I purchased the quality mare prospects (fillies). We each developed them to make sure we knew what we had and when it came time we did a foal sharing arrangement with one mare who made the grade. My/our program took off from there. It was the campaigning and keeping the ‘program in front of eyes’ that cost the most for me. I was very lucky - no foaling disasters (lost one filly to a clostridial disease at 9 days of age to the tune of $900 in medical expenses- all others born healthy and stayed that way), only one breeding slipped in all the breedings I did, no serious reproductive issues ever in my very small program. I did, however, maintain a full time job outside of horses in order to afford it all.

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Complete madness. Wait until you have DVM after your name.

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I do have a DVM after my name, my residency program is to further specialize.

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Would be aimed towards show jumping! For my personal riding horse I’m not aiming for the Grand Prix or anything, just something to bop around in the 1.20m on the weekends with. But I would like to breed GP-potential horses eventually, but doesn’t need to necessarily come from this theoretical mare.

Also I currently have my own property, so boarding isn’t an issue! I have 3 retirees + my current riding horse (who I haven’t shown in a couple years) and 3 boarded geldings on the property now.

So many of us start with a shoestring budget, it’s certainly do-able with a good plan, as you seem to have. How much do you really know about bloodlines, matches and matching mares/stallions and conformation/gaits? I would attend some inspections, if possible - you will learn alot and make some valuable contacts. This time of year is a good time to buy from a breeder maybe clearing out some stock. If you buy an older mare, decide your limit on age, get ALL vet records and produce records and have a good repro vet evaluate her for breeding - a biopsy and examination. When did she have her last foal and how long inbetween foals? Even buying a maiden mare, have her repro examined and a culture done. A great or better than good mare is worth her weight in gold and that is the cornerstone of any breeding program. Your personal taste should enter into it as well. Visit some breeders and look at what they are breeding. If they have been breeding very long, you should see some consistency in what they are producing as we all produce what we like. DON’T GET IN A HURRY! Once you buy a mare, get her checked for any issues and cleaned up and prepared before breeding season. An older mare probably needs a caslick. Keep in mind, many riders who show know very little about bloodlines, maybe just what they’ve had limited experience with riding. Find a breeder who shares your philosophies and tastes and hopefully you will find a mentor. Good luck! It’s a wild ride for those of us who are addicted, LOL!

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I have this same philosophy to be honest, it drives me nuts seeing what WB breeders are willing to breed… and even worse, in my area they breed to stallions who have no performance career to speak of other than maybe a riding test. That’s largely why I say I have champagne tastes on a beer budget… sure there are a lot of domestic-bred mares out there that I could pick up for relatively cheap, but the domestic breeding in this part of the world is largely “stallion got good scores in his 90 day test and then has done nothing since” and “mare once free-jumped and looked decent, and did a mare inspection, and has been in the field since”.

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Wait Ӣ not now Ӣ IMHO

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I think your impression of what wb breeders are doing and producing here is completely outdated! You should do more checking in this!

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I’m going to think about this from a business and marketing point of view.

You are in Alberta, dry prairie weather, good horse country, land and hay are relatively cheap, there is a strong ranch horse community and a top jumper facility in Spruce Meadows. There are certainly sport horse breeders across the prairies because it’s good horse country and land is big and cheap. These are all positives.

However, who is your intended buyer? Spruce Meadows does international Grand Prix tournaments but the horses are all or almost all international or from Ontario. I don’t know about the rest of the year, just what gets on TV! Are there Grand Prix trainers and riders based in Calgary? If so, how many? And where do they source their horses? Canada, USA, Europe?

If there are not that many Grand Prix riders in Alberta, who is your market? Will you be selling to Ontario, or to the USA? We certainly see Americans on these forums often, wondering about importing a horse from Canada that will be a good deal because of the exchange rate. However, when the exchange rate gap is smaller, that competitive price advantage disappears.

I am in BC and while there are a few GP riders and coaches tucked away, almost all the local and regional competitions top out at about 3 feet, and the Thunderbird GPs, like Spruce Meadows, are travelling competitors. My impression is the core of the serious jumping community is in Ontario.

So the first question I have is, where are the Canadian GP riders currently sourcing prospects? Are there Canadian breeders already serving this market? Who are they, what bloodlines, where are they, what does a prospect sell for?

I hear you on second and third tier breeding programs in North America. My guess though is that there’s a big enough market for jumpers under 3 foot and first level dressage horses with the WB “trade mark” and price premium. Then of course we have "“sporthorse” registries that can be basically any cross.

I think you need to know more about the market. Ideal would be to find a quality breeding program in your general area and attach yourself to it for a few years, maybe be their vet plus working student or something.

If the local stallions are mediocre you might be best off sourcing AI from the best European stallions, which can also be a big selling point.

Selling the horses is a whole other matter. Are you going to sell young, or try to campaign them first? I think a lot of breeders just sell young, and focus on moms and babies, because it’s a whole other skill set and focus to train and campaign a jumper. So I think you need to have some pipelines to serious trainers, who may not be local, who are looking for young prospects. Also a credible professional profile online.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Anyhow the question is (1) can you get the foundation stock to create these horses but also (2) can you market yourself in such a way that you find the appropriate buyers? And of course ateast break even.

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I highly recommend a few podcasts:

Straight from the Horse Doctors Mouth - Does a breeding special you MUSTY hear.
Major league Evening - I think it was the Sharon White episode where she talks about her breeding program and the reality behind it.

Unless you have a farm, and multiple mares to breed, this will take a long long time and a lot of $$$$ to get started. I would personally wait, spend a lot of time researching/reading what makes breeding programs successful and then start when you have a truly deep understanding of what you are producing and why.

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