Staying safe around a "Parelli" .. update post 147

[RugBug]

OP good for you for figuring something out that is working for you. It still sounds like the horse doesn’t respect space, so make sure you are always thinking of that. If you rub their head, when you are done you will need to re-establish that it’s no longer rub the head time. I rub my horses faces every time I take the bridle off. They know as soon as I stop that it’s over but I had to re-enforce that for awhile

I was just working with a friends horse last night and he understands some of the rules but needs the next level. She was working with my horse to get a feel for what to do and how much energy/life needed to be involved. Within 20 minutes I could get hi. To quietly back out of my space and stand…something that he struggles with. He needs more work giving his eye and yielding the shoulder as that was hard for him. My friend could see what was possible from dealing with my horse and could also see where she is too loud in her corrections or ignores that first little thing that if she stopped it there would prevent escalation. And again, he’s a good horse with pretty okay ground manners.

Its fine ink to give a horse treats, especially when you are turning them out and they have a habit of whirling and running. I like to take a handful of carrots and scatter them on the ground by the gate. I turn the horse to me, scatter the carrots not letting them eat until I’ve released them and then take the halter off. It is important, though, to make sure they don’t drag you to the carrots. I’ve seen it work just fine for horses that whirl and it’s an easy way to keep everyone safe.

Dont not worry about Palm Beach. She’s obviously perfect and never makes a mistake or is off with her timing. (And BTW, I think some of the stuff she’s posted is over the top and I like NH. ???). Keep working on little pieces and you will find the horse start respecting you.

[enjoytheride]

Personally I think the whole situation is bizarre. Horses are not only perfectly capable of relearning good ground manners after someone has spoiled them, but can even distinguish between people and adjust their behavior. There’s a mare at my barn who lets her owner drag her around but when I lead her in she needs a quiet cluck as a reminder that she’d better step up.

These horses are spoiled and it has nothing to do with Parelli but they aren’t ruined. Treat them like normal horses and correct their bad behavior and they will come along fine.

[Sansena]

Thanks Enjoy… I’d love to ‘correct’ the bad behavior, but as stated a few times here, I’m not allowed to knot the end of the lead, much less do anything that appears aggressive or disciplinary toward these animals. If they see that I slapped his wither the other day, I’m surely going to hear from it.

For the last time… I am a farm sitter. I am at this location for as little as 2 days at a time. This time it’s 3. I am not in a position to retrain these horses… the owners do not want any ‘severe’ handling of the horses (see previous comment about HOs thinking horses ‘give permission’ before human can enter stall).

And, how would they know, you ask? There’s cameras everywhere. If this were an animal that were in my charge under more traditional circumstances, we’d likely have one good CTJ and the issue would be laid to rest. As stated numerous times here, I am unable to do that here.

I was looking for a way to keep myself safe without embarking upon a re-training endeavor, which would be enormously unfair to these horses. See post #11…

[SusanO]

I haven’t read all nine pages but what I think you need to do is have a CTJ moment…with the owners. How well do they pay you? Tell them that either you can’t accept this job or you will have to charge them a premium because of their horse’s behavior. Now do this tactfully:). Tell them it is not fair to the horses to punish them for behaviors that are allowed on a daily basis but that you cannot afford to get hurt. You have already had a good head bonking due to “space” issues. You could have had a concussion - horses have hard heads! Ask them for ideas on how to solve this problem.

Their response will give you an answer about keeping this job.

[mswillie]

@Sansena;8710955

Thanks Enjoy… I’d love to ‘correct’ the bad behavior, but as stated a few times here, I’m not allowed to knot the end of the lead, much less do anything that appears aggressive or disciplinary toward these animals. If they see that I slapped his wither the other day, I’m surely going to hear from it.

For the last time… I am a farm sitter. I am at this location for as little as 2 days at a time. This time it’s 3. I am not in a position to retrain these horses… the owners do not want any ‘severe’ handling of the horses (see previous comment about HOs thinking horses ‘give permission’ before human can enter stall).

And, how would they know, you ask? There’s cameras everywhere. If this were an animal that were in my charge under more traditional circumstances, we’d likely have one good CTJ and the issue would be laid to rest. As stated numerous times here, I am unable to do that here.

I’d fire them as clients. Let them find someone else, or after a while, nobody else.

Although I wouldn’t, as a general rule, hit a horse in the face, if a horse slammed his head into me like you describe, and if I could get my bearings within the three second window, I’d have punched the SOB right back in the jaw. (before anyone gets all upset, I can’t punch a horse hard enough to do any damage other than to hurt his feelings)

If the horses have no manners and you can’t handle them safely because the owners are fools, move on. If you get hurt you won’t be able to work for other clients. It’s not worth the risk.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’d just fire these people as clients and get it over with already. They clearly do not care about YOUR welfare, only that Dobbin gets “royally treated” :rolleyes: and it is actually a huge liability for them.

I had a horse who was very aggressive and I think probably an orphan foal (saw your other thread). He just Did.Not.Get.It. He would have to be corrected by the alpha horse on a daily basis and he still didn’t understand his place in the herd. He was aggressive around people and I had to carry a dressage whip around him and he’d still challenge us (but funnily enough, he’d hop on a trailer and you could trail ride him anywhere with no troubles at all). While I felt like Mr. PoPo and I could handle him, that was our choice to make.
My horse did bite two people - neither time was under our supervision (once was a stall cleaner when he was boarded out and the other was on a camping trip when someone stood in front of him but with his back turned and was eating an apple). I finally realized what a liability he was and had him put down, as nothing we did/tried changed his behavior. We were fired by one house sitter and I realized I was always on pins and needles wondering if he’d hurt someone really badly.

If this horse is an orphan foal with a lifetime of this type of handling, you have it doubly-worse, and I’m afraid there’s probably not much you can do to change this situation. The only thing you can do to keep yourself safe is to fire these people. How much is this job worth it if it gets you hurt and you can’t work for anyone, let alone these people?

[enjoytheride]

Then fire them as clients. The horses aren’t Parelli trained, they flat aren’t trained.

[Palm_Beach]

I would have no problem being filmed while teaching a horse to respect my space. I don’t do anything inhumane or unethical. I don’t hit, punch, whack with the lead rope, etc. But if you can’t get through to the horse, then by all means, have them find someone else to do the work instead of risk getting hurt.

[Foxtrot_s]

I’ve not read the posts - but a horse that is like that has not been trained properly regardless of what method, or how high up the NF hierarchy the
trainer has been. So many newbies see a video and then go and practice the method, and those are the horses that are screwed up and reactive.

I’d not blame NH entirely - I’m certainly not one, but have respect for the horsemen out there, if not the promoters that resemble a side show.

Stay safe, OP…the owner needs to let go, or let you go.

[Foxglove6]

If you are unable to fire the clients, which would be first choice for me, can you treat each horse as an unstable fire-breathing dragon instead? Do not let your guard down. No cuddles, no scratches. Just business. Put them in crossties when you pick their stalls. Leading is strictly point a to point b, no wandering or stopping for chit chat. You can’t give an inch because they will take a mile and you will get hurt. Treat them as feral stallions or whatever other imagery helps you stay “on” at all times when handling them. Best of luck.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

I have the opposite problem!

I was thinking of this thread the other day. I just bought a new horse, and he insists that his proper leading position is with me positioned halfway between his head and shoulder, and about six inches away.:eek:

But he’s a sweet little muffin of a horse, who (so far, knock wood) spooks pretty much in place. And the more confident he becomes in his new surroundings, the more willing he is to lead where I want him - four to six feet behind me, slightly to one side.

It’s a process.