I do know there are other types, but she seemed to be a likely candidate for type 1 due to her being a draft cross.
I actually do not have FB believe it or not lol.
What breed is your mare? Age? What did she do that made you investigate her behavior?
This is such a frustrating process
If she had a torn meniscus wouldn’t she not be able to pass 2 different full lameness exams?
I was just reading about meniscus tears and injuries…scary!! I hope your mare is doing better.
How about an ultrasound before a bone scan? They provide a lot more info, but you also have to pinpoint the area. It would be worth doing the stifles. SI cannot be x-rayed or u/s. Did you do the bute test yet? That is going to help you decipher if she is in pain vs having a mechanical dysfunction. I don’t know if I would spend the money on a bone scan vs just injecting the SI and at least doing the bute test.
Frustrating is an understatement. Imported my mare May 2015. Had 5/6 awesome months. First symptom was when she stopped wanting to get on the trailer, which she previously just walked right on. Then she started getting sour undersaddle. Then she started getting really angry undersaddle and on the lunge. Other symptoms include sitting/leaning on water buckets, grinding teeth on walls and water buckets, super cranky/sensitive about grooming, bathing, body clipping, and very girthy.
We spent almost a year (and too much $$) before I found the PSSM Forum on Facebook and asked my vet to do the biopsy. We scoped for ulcers, did 2 repro exams (including hormone panel and putting her on Regumate), radiographs of back, bone scan, lameness Locator, EPM, Lyme, Polyneuritis, injected SI, hocks, stifles, shockwaved back… and probably more that I can’t think of right now. I had multiple people, including my trainer, tell me that she was just being a witchy mare. Luckily I keep her at home and know her well because I truly believe everything she was doing was her telling me she was hurting.
I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. I hope that you get an answer soon. To answer your questions, she is a Dutch mare. Started showing symptoms at 9… I’ve been told her type of PSSM has an offset age of between 8-11. Let me know if you have any questions.
Usually I do not answer these threads at all because I know I have no knowledge to add but I admit I listened to a very interesting presentation last week which was an eyeopener for me and so now I have another solution.
Ok she is a draft cross and so maybe she does have Type 1 or whatever… But … This vet who was giving the speech talked about hindgut problems and leaky gut. And somehow all the problems he described which are associated with the problem fit for your horse. And giving bute or banamine will worsen any problems so it is not useful to give them when the problem is going in that direction. And obviously a lot of horses have these problems and injecting hocks will obviously be of no help treating this problem.
So did you ever look into that direction??? Ulcerguard will not necessarily treat hindgut problems I really really loved his speech and i think it made a lot of sense and seems to be treatable if you know what you treat for…
Im surprised any vet said she was sound. To me it seems clearly physical and i would not have said she was sound in either the before or after, but that is just me.
Makes me wonder seeing her hocks so straight and the shift in balance when she stands. Kissing spine would be next on my list to rule out.
I have done a equioxx test with no results. My only reason for wanting to a bone scan was so I would definitely know where to look next, but I am definitely hesitant because of the price. My vet seems pretty confident it is her SI (and possible her stifles), so I guess that would be a good place to start.
How is your mare doing now? Is her PSSM manageable?
The only symptoms I am seeing in my mare (that you described) are that she is in pain and “unwilling” under saddle. She acts like everything is fine and dandy when she is out in the pasture or on the lunge line. She loads on the trailer fine as well. I understand she doesn’t have to have every symptom, just doing some comparing.
My mare just turned 8 this year…interesting. For the type of PSSM you’re describing I would have to get a biopsy done, correct? I may just have the vet do that as well next time he is out. I am just so crushed that I have not been able to figure out what is wrong.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post and help me out!
The only time I have had to give her banamine was when she had a very mild colic, it was a small dose and it seemed to do the trick. Within 20-30 minutes of giving it to her she was perky and acting like herself again.
The furthest I investigated the gut/ulcer problem was giving her the weeks worth of Ulcerguard/Gastroguard (can’t remember which one I gave her) and I also gave her sucralfate along with it. I didn’t see any difference, but the hind gut thing may be worth looking into.
I am honestly at such a loss of which direction to go next. I will probably move forward with the SI injections for now since that is what my vet is recommending, but I will definitely be keeping hind gut and leaky gut issues in mind if her SI is not the problem.
I truly appreciate your input, thank you!!
For some reason the flexion test did not make her trot off asymmetrical. As long as no one is on her she looks pretty much normal.
What makes you say she looks unsound in the before videos? Just wondering
Do you think you would look into KS before looking into SI problems? My vet seems to be pretty confident it is her SI (but we haven’t done any true diagnostics yet to know for certain).
We changed her diet along with the biopsy this past November. She’s had a couple “episodes” that I thought was tying up, but blood work proved otherwise, so we put her on Equishure in case it was hindgut issues. I haven’t put her back to real work since her last episode in December, but this week I lunged her for a couple mins and the cranky faces and unwilling attitude are still there. I am told that MFM is progressive, so although I’m going to keep trying to find a management plan that works for her, I’ve accepted that she’s probably done.
There is a company that is now selling hair and blood genetic tests for PSSM2. They have not been published, so they are receiving lots of skeptism, but the name is EquiSeq if you want to look them up. I opted for the biopsy route because it was a much faster turn around time for results. The biopsy was less invasive than I was expecting and my mare recovered very easily.
I am so sorry to hear that about your mare 
I am going to be so heartbroken if that is the case for my mare as well, she is the first horse I have completely brought along myself and she is so special to me. (not to mention she has such a talent for jumping). Horses sure do have a way of keeping you on your toes…
I will have to do some research on EquiSeq, thank you for telling me about them!
Best of luck to you and your horse!!! I am a little sensitive to symptoms like this right now because one of my horses has similar issues and after hearing the presentation from that vet a lot of her symptoms suddenly made sense to me.
She is also extremely sensitive on her skin, she developed skin issues and changed completely during her rides. And this vet explained that horses feel very uncomfortable when they do have hind gut issues and because of that they get all kind of issues. And worst case is of course when they get a leaky gut. The good thing for me was that it is very treatable if you do the right things. So I would recommend looking into it.
OP, you may have more than one thing going on here too. It’s going to need to be a systematic approach to rule things in or out. I think SI is a good place to start, and try a diagnostic/therapeutic injection to see if it helps. If not, then perhaps try the bone scan. Problem with them is that they light up where there are alleged problem areas, but then further diagnostics (u/s or x-rays) are still need after that to pinpoint the problem. If your vet feels like the know the problem area (this horse previously blocked at least partially sound in the stifle) then it deserves further work up.
I sure hope this turns out good for you. It’s so very hard and I am in the process of retiring my lovely 6 yr old boy due to his chronic stifle issue. It sucks sucks sucks. Hope to hear a good update soon!!
Thank you! I hope that whatever my girl has is treatable.
Good luck with your horse as well!!
I know, I have been thinking of that too /: since she blocked partially sound when we injected her stifle, maybe it is stifle and SI? I am calling the vet today to make an appointment for her SI injection.
Really hoping to figure this out soon, this is very draining…mentally and financially.
So sorry to hear about your boy! ):
Jingles and jingles for you and your pony!! Please keep us updated.
I rode a horse that went from being completely fine to acting very similarly to your mare - kicking out, hopping, not wanting to go forward. He was previously a very forward horse. Diagnostics showed he had both kissing spines and an arthritic stifle.
Hi OP, I just wanted to point out that you will be waiting at least a couple of months to do a bone scan if you do the SI injection and it doesn’t help. The injection will skew the results, so you have to wait.
Thoracic X-rays aren’t horribly expensive. You could see KS on a good field machine. To look at the articular facets well, you would want a clinic X-ray.
Just throwing this out there because my horse has a lot of similar behaviors. Refusing to go forward, balking, popping up, kicking out. He’s not a hot horse, but when he’s feeling good he’s got a natural motor. Way worse u/s than on the longe or at liberty. We suspected SI for a while but did not inject because we decided to do the bone scan.
Nothing showed up on the bone scan for the SI or up high behind. His lower back lit up though. We had already done T-spine X-rays, which were repeated. He has some changes at the dorsal spinous processes at the areas that lit up. The X-rays look the same now as ~2 yrs ago. But we decided to treat his back and leave his SI alone. Probably in the long run this is approach in diagnostics is going to cost us less $. We just did that today, and he needs a good amount of recovery time before I try getting back on. None of the inflamed area was under the saddle–all behind the saddle. But, it might be why he crow hops a bit at the canter and doesn’t go under saddle and wants to stop and park out behind. We have to wait and see. If this doesn’t work, we would have to get into weird internal or repro issue kind of territory most likely.
Not saying you have the same problems, but KS or another back issue is definitely a possibility and why we X-rayed to rule that out a couple years ago. I think SI injections are a reasonable thing to try. But if they don’t work, what would you do next and how much waiting around are you willing to do?
I’m also surprised by the videos that your vets considered her to pass a lameness workup. Did they watch her move with rider weight?
Thank you! Will do!!
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