Stock tie for dressage at AECs? *UPDATED info

[Lusoluv]

When I wear a showjacket in dressage, I wear a 1/4 zip-up show shirt (Kastel, Romfh), no stock tie. When it’s too hot, I wear the same shirt sans jacket. Never had a problem with the TD. At the AECs I’m assuming everyone wears a jacket no matter what the temp is. Do I need to get a stock tie? I’m at lowly BN, but want to be correct. TIA!

**Update from USEF after sending a photo of my showshirt with standup collar:

The show shirt is permitted to be worn with a jacket, and without additional neckwear up to the Modified level. Also, at the Modified level and below, you may compete without a jacket. In such cases, the shirt attached, neatly tucked into riding breeches is acceptable.

[evtrmom]

Short answer. Yes! You want to be formal, and you will also wear it for show jumping!! Have a blast!

[Jersey_Fresh]

If it makes you feel any better, I don’t even own a stock tie so I’ll be showing without one.

[Lusoluv]

I don’t own a stock tie either and have never had an issue with what I’ve worn at rated shows. I’d rather not wear a tie - it’s just one more thing to wear when it’ll probably be hot. Frankly, I wouldn’t wear a jacket at an August show, but since it’s the AECs - I will. I just didn’t know if the TDs would be on “high alert” for any perceived infractions. If I don’t have to wear one for dressage, I wouldn’t for showjumping either

[Jersey_Fresh]

I mean a TD penalizing a BN rider for not wearing a stock tie or a jacket would be a surefire way to get themselves in a whole lot of trouble with both the organizer and USEA since there is a rule specifically stating you do not need to wear either. Plus its pretty hot here in August.

I did have a steward try to tell me to button my collar up to close it before I walked into SJ once. Which i politely thanked her for reminding me, then walked in with it open since there is no rule about that either.

Also if it makes you feel any better my friend showed in a blue top no jacket at the 2021 AECs and was in the top 15 after dressage in a 50+ entry BN-Am division.

[RAyers]

Correction, the rule making body is the USEF. USEA is an affiliated discipline but only provides the association to rule making. They can not make nor do they enforce rules.

[Janet]

@RAyers

Correction, the rule making body is the USEF. USEA is an affiliated discipline but only provides the association to rule making. They can not make nor do they enforce rules.

Very true. But, non-the-less, Jersey Fresh is correct in saying that the USEF rules SPECIFICALLY say that you do not need to wear a jacket or neckwear from BN through Prelim.

Subchaper 9 Dress

Dressage
5b Beginner Novice through Preliminary - Any single-color jacket is permitted. Tweeds, pinstripes, tasteful, and discreet accents such as such as a collar, cuff, lapel, piping, of any color, or crystal decorations are acceptable. Tailcoats are not permitted. Athletes may compete without a jacket. In such cases, a long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without neckwear, any color and design; tasteful and discreet accents, such as a collar, cuff, piping, is acceptable, neatly tucked into riding breeches is acceptable.

Show Jumping
7b. Jackets. Any single-color jacket is permitted. Tweeds, pinstripes, tasteful, and discreet accents such as such as a collar, cuff, lapel, piping, of any color, or crystal decorations are acceptable. For Tests, Beginner Novice through Modified, at any Horse Trial format: Athletes may compete without a jacket. In such cases, a shirt – long or short sleeved with a collar and without neckwear, of any color and design; tasteful and discreet accents, such as a collar, cuff, piping, is acceptable, neatly tucked into riding breeches is acceptable.

Whether “everyone else” will be wearing a jacket and neckwear at the AEC is anther question. But neither the TD not the judge can penalize you for not wearing a jacket and neckwear.

[RAyers]

I agree Janet. I am trying to educate everybody on who actually makes the rules and does competition schedules, etc. The USEA is an advocacy/educational entity to develop the sport and advocate for the participants.

I want folks to know that stupidity starts at the FEI/USEF (e.g. the lack of education of the TD about this rule) in their management of officials, rules development, data collection,…

[Lusoluv]

“Also if it makes you feel any better my friend showed in a blue top no jacket at the 2021 AECs and was in the top 15 after dressage in a 50+ entry BN-Am division.”

Yes, this does make me feel better! The last show I was at I was the only rider not wearing a jacket. It was 90F+ heat index and as I age, I don’t tolerate the heat well. I ditched the jacket and won our division. I didn’t know if there was an unspoken biased at the AECs having never been there. And it’s not like I’m being lazy. I have a beautiful Euro jacket I love! But if it’s sunny, humid and over 86F, I’m guaranteed a migraine and queasy stomach. Not the best conditions for dressage, let alone heading out on XC or SJ!

[Jersey_Fresh]

Sleep deprivation fueled typo

[Jersey_Fresh]

I went almost 2 full seasons without a coat on because I couldn’t button it across the ladies post-partum Never affected my scores or placings. In KY you see a lot of jacketless riding at the lower levels and jackets being waved almost every event in the summer (or its raining and we are all in rain coats). So dont fret unless you want to wear a stock tie.

[Lusoluv]

THANK YOU! Now I won’t be so worried.

[Gardenhorse]

I agree that you’re not required to wear a jacket at BN. But if you do wear a jacket, rule 5c about shirts says “with stock and pin, choker, or tie”. Is a zip up collar considered a choker?

[endlessclimb]

If you want to just borrow one, I have one that just snaps on over a regular collared shirt I’d loan you for the show! It’s plain, just a couple jewels near the neck, easy on easy off, technical fabric type material.

Let me know!

[Highflyer1]

c. Shirts. Any color and design, tasteful and discreet accents, such as a collar, cuff, piping,
are acceptable with stock and pin, or choker, or tie.

A friend’s daughter was told recently that no neckwear only applies if you are not wearing a jacket, and that if you are wearing one you need a stock, choker, or tie. The judge told her that she was letting it go with a warning but that she should at minimum have one of the wrap collar type shirts to be in full compliance with the rules. I suggested the mom email USEF for a verdict but I’m not sure if they did. But there are definitely varying interpretations of this rule out there and it should probably be clarified.

[Janet]

@Highflyer1

A friend’s daughter was told recently that no neckwear only applies if you are not wearing a jacket, and that if you are wearing one you need a stock, choker, or tie.

Yes- that is absolutely true. I don’t see much room for “interpretation”.

Either “Jacket and Neckwear” or “No Jacket and No Neckwear”

[Janet]

@Gardenhorse

I agree that you’re not required to wear a jacket at BN. But if you do wear a jacket, rule 5c about shirts says “with stock and pin, choker, or tie”. Is a zip up collar considered a choker?

That IS a gray area. I think most judges would consider a zip up collar as equivalent to a choker (as the show hunters do), but it would be smart to check with the judge ahead of time (it is, in the end, the judge’s decision, not the TDs)

[Lusoluv]

@endlessclimb : That is so kind of you to offer - thank you!! I’m sure one of my barn pals has a choker from their hunter shirts I can borrow. I forgot that a stock tie OR choker was appropriate as neck wear!

[enjoytheride]

Most if not all HJ people are wearing the wrap around magnetic collars. Old school separate chokers are mostly seen at breed shows. I’m from back in the day when you had your choker monogrammed and I was always losing them. I appreciate the new magnetic ones.

[Lusoluv]

FYI, from USEF:

The show shirt is permitted to be worn with a jacket, and without additional neckwear up to the Modified level. Also, at the Modified level and below, you may compete without a jacket. In such cases, the shirt attached, neatly tucked into riding breeches is acceptable.