Okay, we’re less than a month away from our season opener so it’s time for me to start getting my stock tie tied. 
I’ve read all the posts here related to stock ties and how to tie them and my wife and I have worked at it for hours and we can’t do it!
First thing, my shirt has a button on the BACK of the collar. What’s that for? Illustrations and directions usually reference and show a button on the front.
a stock tie knot is just a square knot. then you fan out the legs (or whatever the bight of the stock tie is called) don’t worry about the buttons.
Yes, I see that written in many of the threads on this subject.
My specific question is why does my shirt have the button on the back and all the illustrations show a button on the front? This puts me off-course right at the start. My tie has a button HOLE dead center and a slot off to one side. Will this combination work?
I think maybe the shirts that have the button in the front expect you to take an extra half-loop before you get to tying. If that is correct, my tie is going to be longer than the instructions allow for.
ETA: This is my favorite set of instructions:
Tiein’ One’a Them There Stock Ties Fer Real
I reckon some of y’all read that there paragraph above; an’ you studied that there cute “how-to” cartoon; but yer still too danged thick, no offense, to figger out how to tie one’a them stock ties. Well, a very purty lady asked me how to do it, once; an’ I’m always ready to oblige, so here’s what I did.
“Watch me,” I tells ‘er. "Here, hold it like this. No, like this here. Okay, now put the center up to your adam’s apple an’ swing them ends ‘round like, oops… like this here, see? Okay. Now, iff’n you got one’a them slotted ties, put the long end through the slot. No, no, dagnabbit! Not like that! Like this! Jeeze! Iff’n you got one’a them things without a slot, twist one side as it comes ‘round yer neck so it lays flat agin’ yer neck. Gooood! Okay, now listen hard. You got them ends hanging down your front, across your… ah… chest. Nah, don’t worry none ‘bout getting them ends even, the waistcoat’ll cover ‘em. Now, tie a square knot. No, a SQUARE knot, you danged fool, not one’a them grannies! Look here, consarn it, like this, okay? Dang it, woman, pay attention! Aw, fer cryin’ out loud, quit fiddlin’ with it. Okay, good. Now, fluff-up that there knot ‘til it looks purty good, then tighten it an’ re-fluff it. Yeah, that’s it. Now fold them ends across like a X ‘til you got a… no! you durned fool, like this! Okay, that’s a darned sight better. Now, put the pin horizontal-like just below the knot and through one flap… good… then through yer shirt… careful, now… Dagnabbit it, I told you to be careful! Yeah, soda water’ll get it out. Then the other flap… No! HORIZONTAL! ya durned idjut… yeah, like the horizon. Now, pin them flappin’ ends to yer shirt… right, safety pins, good idea, Sherlock. Oh, of all the… Here, lemme do it… Oops… sorry. Look, it was a accident!" Man, try to help a lady an’… nevermind.
Hope this helps some.
The video I posted on my blog helped me. But when all else fails (and I’ve been there), I have asked a more experienced member to help. At some hunts I’ve seen people lined up in front of the stock tie experts! :lol:
Yep, that’s the route I’ve been taking so far. A very nice lady has been tying it for me 
I’m a very analytical person and if I ever get this down I’ll be able to explain it perfectly to other’s coming up behind me. 
One big problem is that MYSTERIOUS 4TH STEP. The illustrations always show this unclearly. When I’ve analyzed them closely it isn’t possible to do the 4th step unless all known topological laws are suspended.
just fly me down thar!!
I can come down there and help you with it! :winkgrin: All I ask is a free cap, a horse to ride and plane tickets but I’d be GLAD to come down & help!!! OH…and I’ll need to be fed…foxhunters gotta eat!
BTW, I’m available to fly to other parts of the country to hunt and tie stocks for ya!! ;):yes: But a cheaper alternative is the local hunts stock tie mom…every hunt has one trust me. Find her early before the meet and before she gets her hands dirty or before she gets into the stirrup cup too heavily…:lol:
So back to my question: Why do some shirts have the button on the back and some on the front? 
ETA: I received a couple of different PMs on this. The one that seems most likely correct (but I haven’t checked it out) is that it’s there to hold a pre-tied stock).
[QUOTE=wanabe;3557308]
One big problem is that MYSTERIOUS 4TH STEP. The illustrations always show this unclearly. When I’ve analyzed them closely it isn’t possible to do the 4th step unless all known topological laws are suspended.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely true! I would never have been able to figure it out if I hadn’t had the woman at the tack shop show me how to tie it first. Then the online pictures made more sense, because I’d seen it in person.
I am totally confused. My stock tie looks like the one on the Horse Country diagrams–two pieces of cloth with a slot – but no button. The Horse Country diagram still doesn’t make sense to me. Can someone tell me in their own words how to tie the damn thing?
I’m starting to think this thing is the “secret handshake” of foxhunting. A properly tied stock tie is a signal that some other accepted hunter has taught you how to do it, right?
Ya got me there, my stock tie buttons on the top button (or on one shirt a stud) in the front.
I do own one with no button- cheapie dressage stock I guess. The button isn’t essential, actually, but I’ve sort of gotten used to that method after 37 years!
I first learned using the diagram in Wadsworth’s ‘Riding to Hounds in America.’ Yeah, square knot, basically, then loop and cross left and right over the knot, then comes the hard part, getting the *(&^ stock pin straight through while catching the knot, this is essential.
The difficulties even one with decades of experience can have in tieing the stock tie are inversely proportional to how much or little time you have. Also, if you can swallow comfortably, it isn’t tight enough.
[QUOTE=linquest;3558866]
I am totally confused. My stock tie looks like the one on the Horse Country diagrams–two pieces of cloth with a slot – but no button. The Horse Country diagram still doesn’t make sense to me. Can someone tell me in their own words how to tie the damn thing?
I’m starting to think this thing is the “secret handshake” of foxhunting. A properly tied stock tie is a signal that some other accepted hunter has taught you how to do it, right?[/QUOTE]
The button isn’t on the tie. The tie has a button hole. The button is on the collar. All the illustrations I’ve seen show the button on the front of the collar but my shirt has a button on the back.
There isn’t a buttonhole on my tie either
Alright, I’ve found some instructions that state pretty unamiguously that the button is at the front. So, I’m disregarding the button on the back of my collar. Whoever put it there should be shot, but that can wait.
We come now to a parting in the road. Some of us have plain ties and others (me, in particular) have ties with a button-hole and a slot. This button-hole and slot tie requires some additional upfront work to get it to the place where you start tying a plain tie.
The buttonhole is in the exact center of the tie length. This means there is a slot in one half and not in the other half.
If the button is in the center then obviously the slot can’t be. The slot divides the tie into two sections. I’ll refer to the longer end as “a” and the shorter end as “b”.
Here are some instructions for the button-hole and slot tie. They are mostly useless because the wording is so bad. Step 2 starts “Pass the collar part round the neck from the front to the back…”
http://www.horsecountrylife.com/catalog/huntingstock.html
However step 1 is useful in that it describes and illustrates the stock tie with button-hole and slot.
Here are my instructions to replace that step 2:
Fasten the tie to the front button. The button-hole is not in the center of the width of the tie. It should be attached with the hole DOWN. This insures that the long section (a) will start out around the left side of your neck and section (b) around the right side. If your tie has no button-hole, just place the center of the tie at the front center of your neck.
Take the half that is unslotted, section (a) and run it around the left side of your neck
Take the half with the slot in it (b) and run it around the right side of your neck
The two sections will come together somewhere in the back (where, exactly, depends on the size of your neck.
Where they come together, run section a (which has no slot in it) thru the slot in section b)
You will now have section a hanging down your right chest and section b hanging down your left chest and now they are the same length! (You will also have the tie running completely around your throat, including the front.)
If you have a plain unslotted tie, Just run the tie around your neck starting by holding the center at the front of your throat and where the two halves meet, twist one above or below the other and continue on. Make sure the 2 ends hanging down each chest are of equal length.
Now all types of ties are ready to proceed with one common set of instructions.
I think the following diagram is the easiest to follow from now on:
http://www.saddleshop.com/extras/stocktie_print.htm
Notes:
The darkened section of the tie represents the back of the tie. This makes following what is going on much easier.
These instructions result in a square knot, but get there without doing the right-over-left-and-thru, left-over-right-and-thru movement. Instead they do (although it may not look like it) a right-over-left-and-thru followed by a right-UNDER-left-and-thru movement This results in square knot but it is a mirror image of the one you would wind up with if you did the traditional movements. The advantage of doing it this way is that you will wind up with equal length ends.
At this point you have the knot – which looks like a cylinder with its axis horizontal, and the two end pieces coming out of each end of the cylinder. Now for the finish.
Let the two ends hang down. They loop a bit like droopy dog’s ears.
Place your thumbs about 1 inch from the knot and behind each piece so that the back of each thumb is lying against your chest. Your fingers will naturally go to the front side of each piece. Lift both hands and simultaneously rotate your elbows (which were sticking out away from your body to each side) in where they lie tight against each side. What WERE the backs of each end piece are now pointing toward each other – touching, in fact. Leave one piece against the knot and your chest but slant it down and across to the opposite chest. Lift the other end piece over that slanted end piece and similarly slant it diagonally down to its opposite chest. Pin everything in place with a small piece of the knot behind showing in the V formed by the intersection of the two end pieces.
If I’ve not been clear at any point, please let me know.
What? No one’s going to give me a pat on the back for this? 
Come on you know it’s the BEST explanation out there on the web.
[QUOTE=linquest;3559161]
There isn’t a buttonhole on my tie either [/QUOTE]
As Beverly said, a buttonhole isn’t essential. Its purpose is to make sure you have the exact center of the tie at the exact center of the front of your throat. You can accomplish the same thing by making sure that the two ends hang down evenly on each side after you’ve wrapped it around your throat and fed the long end thru the slot in the tie and before you start to tie the knot.
Come to think of it, the hole may even be a liability (I guess one could have one and just not use it!) because you want the RIGHT side to hang down a bit more before you start tying the knot because it’s material from the RIGHT side that is used to form the background piece of the knot.
[QUOTE=wanabe;3559262]
Cursed be those who have said so.[/QUOTE]
Curse me all you want. I have been hunting for 45 years and have yet to be shunned for my stock tie knot!
LOL, I just got frustrated by those who keep saying “it’s just a square knot, froofed up”. This is wrong for 3 reasons.
It ignores the fact that many of us have ties that have a slot and buttonhole. You have to deal with these as I’ve outlined above before you can move on to the square knot method.
A square knot alone isn’t complete. You have to continue on by taking the piece on top and feeding it down on thru the loop formed by the piece underneath and the piece lying on top of that underlying piece and going across it horizontally.
There are several web sites with illustrations on how to tie a stock tie and none of them use the square knot method. Trying to reconcile these illustrations with a square knot only leads to confusion.
Isn’t the button on the back of the collar for your hat cord?
Are you serious? I haven’t a clue!
Here are all the web sites I could find that show how to tie a stock. None of them show the square knot method. As I said, trying to reconcile these with the square knot method will only lead to confusion. It’s necessary for those learning to tie a stock to know that there are (at least) two different methods – the square knot, and the one illustrated by these links.
http://www.saddleshop.com/extras/stocktie_print.htm
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