I own a Morgan and I contracted her out on lease to own. The woman has moved my horse and blocked or stopped all communication with me. Per our contract I have the right to pick her up at any time with out notice or court order. Obviously I will have to locate her. So question is, giving it was a lease to own, is my horse considered stolen? Can the BM or owner of the place she is be held for knowingly hiding stolen property?
[QUOTE=Invest Pretty Money;8661536]
I own a Morgan and I contracted her out on lease to own. The woman has moved my horse and blocked or stopped all communication with me. Per our contract I have the right to pick her up at any time with out notice or court order. Obviously I will have to locate her. So question is, giving it was a lease to own, is my horse considered stolen? Can the BM or owner of the place she is be held for knowingly hiding stolen property?[/QUOTE]
The lease to own situation makes it a little more complicated I think. Has she stopped making payments?
Yes, it was the final payment. So no bill of sale, I still have her registration papers. She has breached our contract 4 times that I have documentation of.
[QUOTE=Invest Pretty Money;8661548]
Yes, it was the final payment. [/QUOTE]
what does this mean?
has she paid in full?
No she did not pay the final payment.
[QUOTE=Invest Pretty Money;8661548]
Yes, it was the final payment. So no bill of sale, I still have her registration papers. She has breached our contract 4 times that I have documentation of.[/QUOTE]
The “lease to own” contract could be seen as, I presume, the bill of sale. Upon completion of all the payments, the horse is now considered as “sold”.
If the person breached the contract 4 times, why did you waited for her to make all the payments before wanting to get your horse back?
You cannot just let someone pay the whole amount and then, at the end, take the horse back because you claim she breached the contract… It doesn’t work that way. You can’t have the full amount and the horse…
Good luck.
ETA: The lease/buyer vanished before paying the last payment?
[QUOTE=Invest Pretty Money;8661548]
Yes, it was the final payment. So no bill of sale, I still have her registration papers. She has breached our contract 4 times that I have documentation of.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by she breached the contract four times?
Registration papers do not mean much when it comes to ownership.
No, she failed to make the final payment. Well, she is therefore in breach, and you get to recover, same as if the horse were a car. No, I don’t think a BO would be held liable for “hiding” the horse unless they were party to the non-payment as well. They probably have no idea.
She did not pay the full price! I have no doubt I have the right to reposes the horse. This is clearly stated in or contract with lists of example default and the remedies for such. I had documented the first breach back in November, in case I needed it in the future. (this was the first time she moved the horse) She messaged me about boarding at the place I do. 11/21 stated she had until to 01/01 to move. The reasoning she gave for the move was a bit strange but I let it go…
I have only in the last week or so found out of other things that have been done, or said they’re being done, and actually are not. (like weekly lessons) So that brings me to the additional 3 breaches. Not to mention most everything this woman had told me has been a lie. To include Vet and Farrier names…
I feel like crap that I let this happen to my mare. However at the time I had a family member attempt suicide so I had to let her go and asap. I figured the lease to own would give me the opportunity to insure she was in deed placed in a situation I wanted for her.
MY QUESTION is if this is considered a theft?
I am aware the BM and BO know of the situation as I contacted them only to get vet info and feed info, so I could make sure all was being taken care of. I will be bringing her out of state. The grasses are different as is the grain. Additional vaccines are needed in the new area. I wanted to purchase hay from the facility to introduce the new slowly. Grain a supplements slowly introduced as well.
I am getting my horse, I was just thinking that a person in the boarding, lesson, training industry would want to maintain a good reputation. Not only protecting herself, but as an animal lover, the medical/feed issue is solely for the horse.
BTW, she told me in a message on Facebook about the desire to move. 11/21, having time to look around because of the 1st of January being her deadline. She moved the horse on 11/22, the after. In our contract this has to be a place I inspect and the change be put in writing and attached to the original lease.
You need to talk to a lawyer who is licensed both in your state and in any other state involved.
Probable civil matter. Call your local LEAgency and make a report. If you’re lucky they’ll go have a look and that often “jars loose” the money. If not you’re pretty much limited to small claims court.
Now, the big question: how much money is involved? If it’s a small amount the time it will take you to litigate and then try and collect might quickly exceed the value of what you get. If you still have the papers you are under no duty to provide them until you are fully paid. If the amount is large then you should seriously consider legal action.
Good luck going forward.
G.
I guess the question is, do you want the horse back? or do you want the final payment?
If you want the horse back and you know where the horse is, contact the police department and provide documentation. Have a police officer there when you pick up the horse.
If you want the final payment, you should contact an attorney and then, depending on the $$, may need to go to small claims court.
I don’t think the BO or BM would be party to the dispute unless they were materially involved. I’m also not sure if it’s considered theft. That would need to be something to take up with an attorney.
Years ago a family I knew bought a horse for their daughter on payments. When they failed to make a payment and didn’t respond to the seller, he simply showed up and re-possessed the horse. He did not involve the barn owner.
This is a civil case, After finding out some truths about this woman. I don’t want the money. I want my horse back! The police won’t escort me because it’s a civil issue. If there’s an altercation then they will come. I plan on letting them know when I am going so they’re prepared if a call come in.
I won’t need to go to court to get the mare back. I will need to if I want to recover the fees of the process. It’s in our lease she will have to pay anything I pay out. In the contract she was to return the mare to me at her expense. She knows she is in the wrong. If this goes to court she will loose. Especially considering I really think at this point she’s breed her. If this is theft then the BM who knowingly helps to hide the horse is them implicated herself in this civil case. The state police have verified that for me. I contacted them after getting a fake call from someone on her behalf claiming to be an officer. This person threatened me and my family. The police are now monitoring out home at night.
So…anyone want to start placing bets on when the houseguest is going to arrive on this thread?
I’m predicting that burritos and wine will be required very soon!
[QUOTE=Invest Pretty Money;8661653]
This is a civil case, After finding out some truths about this woman. I don’t want the money. I want my horse back! The police won’t escort me because it’s a civil issue. If there’s an altercation then they will come. I plan on letting them know when I am going so they’re prepared if a call come in.
I won’t need to go to court to get the mare back. I will need to if I want to recover the fees of the process. It’s in our lease she will have to pay anything I pay out. In the contract she was to return the mare to me at her expense. She knows she is in the wrong. If this goes to court she will loose. Especially considering I really think at this point she’s breed her. If this is theft then the BM who knowingly helps to hide the horse is them implicated herself in this civil case. The state police have verified that for me. I contacted them after getting a fake call from someone on her behalf claiming to be an officer. This person threatened me and my family. The police are now monitoring out home at night.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you already have answers to all the questions you asked.
As a BM I would not release the horse to anyone but who the boarding contract is with unless there were legal papers involved. If you came onto my property and tried to take the horse while in dispute with the buyer I would be obligated to call the police unless you had court papers with you or the person I had the contract with agreeded that you could remove the horse. You or the other person would have to pay the 30 day notice/fee before removing the horse.
I would definitely talk to a lawyer. Especially if she did breed the mare and the mare is in foal, because now you have a whole other battle with regard to who keeps the foal, who pays the stud fee if it wasn’t already paid (and that drags a third person into it), aborting it if you want to and it’s early enough (then who pays the vet bill) etc. Even more so if your contract didn’t cover this possibility.
[QUOTE=Couture TB;8661674]
As a BM I would not release the horse to anyone but who the boarding contract is with unless there were legal papers involved. If you came onto my property and tried to take the horse while in dispute with the buyer I would be obligated to call the police unless you had court papers with you or the person I had the contract with agreeded that you could remove the horse. You or the other person would have to pay the 30 day notice/fee before removing the horse.[/QUOTE]
I would welcome the police. I’ve already been in touch with the police and I will be notifying them when I do go there. I have legal documentation of my right to take the horse with out interference, notice or court ruling. So having court orders doesn’t change that. I have no business with BM. I did not sign a contract with them. So I have no liability there. I also have no way to contact the buyer. I’m not even 100% positive where she is. The BM is refusing even confirm if the horse is still there. This is where I am wondering if that is a legal position for the BM to take, If indeed this is considered Theft.
Guacamole. That is all.
