We were on a group trail ride today and more experienced horseman told me I should try switching my mare to a curb. She has always been a little “stubborn”, but I attribute it to me and the need for more training/riding. However, I threatened to get a tougher bit the other weekend when we rode. I pulled it through her mouth. Today when she’d get excited she tended to pull when I asked her to walk from the trot and when I would do a circle she fought it. Lots of mough gaping open too. I don’t expect a bit to solve all my problems, but want to have less wear and tear on my shoulders. This is a 20 year old Morab, used for trail riding. Any advice, suggestions?
Why not try a bit of leverage, minus a bit? A little s hackamore, beetle hackamore, or english hackamore may get the horse’s attention, yet has no bit for the horse to brace or gape against.
I’d suggest a hackamore. I’ve got an english short shank one.
You could also add a running martingale. It really adds alot of control. Set the running martingale so it is tight when the horse has it’s head at a normal position and the reins run straight to your hands.
A running martingale keeps the head down and the horse on it’s bit.
A curb bit with a curb strap also adds alot of control and horses don’t tend to toss their heads as much with a curb over the snaffle. Either one adds alot of control
What kind of bit are you currently using?
First of all, you need to get the mouth closed. Leverage and control are lost when the horse evades by opening the mouth. Try a figure 8 noseband, or a dropped noseband to return leverage to your bit before you take any other steps.
Even a snaffle will return more power to your hands when it is used in conjunction with a mouth that is securely shut.
I think this would be a good first step as well. It is the simplest change in equipment. A horse can evade a curb bit too if they want to by opening their mouth.
A figure 8 will give you more control without having to up to a harsher bit.
An english hackamore would be a good step as well. I know alot of horses that go well in the english hackamore.
I would try the hackamore. Perhaps your mare has a low pallet. It seems quite common with the arab breed. I had an 1/2 arab and started having lots of problems with avoidence such as gapping, hollowing his back, pulling, ect. Checked his mouth and found his pallet was so low that it touched his tongue. Tried an english hackamore and wow, what a different horse. Had the best control ever. Because his mouth wasn’t being hurt, he began to use his rear end better(no more heavy on the front)no more choppy trots. He started giving me a big long lovely trot that was so comfy that i could ride it all day. I rode him with the hackamore at least 10 to 15 years before he passed away.
You have a training problem that has nothing to do with the bit in the horse’s mouth. Go back to step 1, which is teaching the horse to bend, give and supple to the bit. You have to start that on the ground first.
You can keep getting bigger bits and bigger bits until your mare ends up like my QH was - going in a long shanked, high port curb with a tight curb chain, sporting bit sores on her lips, and STILL throwing her head and running away.
Go back to training, and don’t think that a stronger bit is the answer because its not.
[QUOTE=LookinSouth;3999607]
I think this would be a good first step as well. It is the simplest change in equipment. A horse can evade a curb bit too if they want to by opening their mouth.
A figure 8 will give you more control without having to up to a harsher bit.
An english hackamore would be a good step as well. I know alot of horses that go well in the english hackamore.[/QUOTE]
No way openning the mouth avoids a curb bit wearing a curb strap. the lower jaw is pinched between the bit and the curb strap.
Openning a mouth is also not going to avoid the snaffle. You want it againt the lower bars of the mouth. All the horse has to do is raise it’s head and the bit rests against the teeth and the horse has avoided the bit. Mouth tied shut of not the head can still come up and thus put the bit on the teeth and not of the sensive bars.
A running martingale keeps the bit on the bars, adds leverage for when the horse ties to raise it’s head. the curb adds leverage and the curb strap keeps the bit on the bars.
I’ve seen Walkers run through a 9 1/2" shank “Walker” bit with a single, thin, twisted wire moutpiece. Increasing the amount of “leather and iron” will not, necessarily, advance you goals.
As noted above, you have a training problem, not an equipment problem. Thing is you have 20 year old horse who has lots of “experience” (or maybe “baggage”) that you’re going to have to deal with. So “retraining” is going to be longer, slower, and more time intensive program than if you were dealing with a young, green horse.
I would first figure out if the horse knows the meaning of “whoa.” Then go from there. Begin the training using a snaffle (correctly fitted) in a confined area for safety as you begin to teach acceptance of the bit and response to standard cues and aids.
Pulling a bit through the mouth suggest a lot, none of which is very positive about either the horse or the rider. It may be that the problem is not, in fact, the horse but rather the riders use of the hand. Video recording the rider working the horse will tell a lot about the rider’s use of seat, leg, and hand and may require the rider go back to school at the same time as the horse.
G.
GADS!!! I don’t think the first things to do are to slap in a stronger bit, tie 'em down, and force his mouth closed .
First of all how long has this horse been doing this? Have his teeth been checked recently? How long has this bit been used for this horse? And some horses don’t like a snaffle bit. Mine don’t but that doesn’t mean to do any of the above to them.
IF you have had teeth done I would try something mild like a kimberwick. If it isn’t the bit it’s a training problem or rather a lack of training.
Shadow, a horse tied down is not ON the bit. That is a whole different thing altogether with no force involved at all but I won’t get into it here.
[QUOTE=pj;3999996]
GADS!!! .
Shadow, a horse tied down is not ON the bit. That is a whole different thing altogether with no force involved at all but I won’t get into it here.[/QUOTE]
I said a RUNNING not a standing martingale. Big difference and the horse is not tied down with a running. You leave the reins loose and soft until the horse acts up and then and only then will the running come into play.
Alot of jumpers use a running martingale so when the rider applies pressure to the bit the horse can’t pull hiis head up to escape the bit and miss seeing the jump.
Lots and lots of older horses are poorly trained and wearing big bits and nothing is going to help them except a more knowledgable rider.
I ran 20 plus years without a bit and only sidepulls so I have lots of experience with running with no bit, I used a light snaffle for years too but eventually found the tom thumb style of bit worked better for me.
Snaffles cause high headedness where a light curb with a snap doesn’t.
Seems for another post that the Man from Snow River and Return to Snowyriver are factual. Also look at the movie Austrailia.
What do all of them have in common??
Snaffle bits and horses that throw their heads up when asked to stop. Every one. You don’t get that with curbs. There is no escape from throwing the head up so the horse doesn’t learn the annoying habit.
I ride with extremely soft hands and believe I could tie my reins to the bit with a single strand of thread and not break it on a 2 hour ride.
Simply put, your horse is not trained to be responsive and you aren’t trained to ride.
Lessons is where I’d suggest you start, honestly.
One of my riding buddies rides only in a Myler level 2 curb, and her horses still throw their heads up when ticked off, or crazy to run home and she won’t let them. Having a curb in their mouths does NOTHING for head throwing. The only way to stop a horse from throwing its head is to tie it down with a standing martingale. (Not that I advocate it, because I don’t.)
She is currently in a regular jointed snaffle, it’s what she was ridden in before we bought her, and what I have ridden in the last two years. I plan on getting her into a round pen/riding ring so I can see how she does w/out the distraction of going home, other horses, etc. Also plan on some lessons for us both when I get time, should be soon. The only other bit I have tried her in was a Level 2 Myler snaffle and I thought she was actually more bullheaded in that, but that was last year on a trail ride. I don’t think I can compare unless I try them out in a more controlled environment.
I just know that when I go to take lessons it’s quite possible they will recommend someting, and I’d like a little input. A book says stick with snaffle, someone says curb, someone says hackamore. Just looking for ideas/opinions.
Doesn’t matter what kind. A horse actually ON a bit needs nothing to keep them there. They do it themselves when asked. Takes a LOT of work not gimmicks.
Can you ride her in nice, steady, ROUND circles in that snaffle?
Basically- the answer that suits you and your situation will depend on what you’re willing and able to do with that answer. Riding lessons, maybe a dental exam, maybe a cavesson, maybe a tied down, maybe bumping her up to some weird bit, etc…I guess what I’m saying is that your answer depends more on you and your time and money resources…than on the horse.
Basically- the answer that suits you and your situation will depend on what you’re willing and able to do with that answer. Riding lessons, maybe a dental exam, maybe a cavesson, maybe a tie down, maybe bumping her up to some weird bit, using leverage to bend her to your bad hands, etc…I guess what I’m saying is that your answer depends more on you and your time and money resources…than on the horse. I’m not trying to be ugly or short- I’m just stating the facts as I see them. I haven’t seen the horse, your riding, your deal. There are many possible solutions. Only you know what you can invest in creating a better situation where you aren’t dragging a snaffle through a horse’s mouth.
She had her teeth done last year and will again this year when the vet comes to do Coggins. I honestly don’t think it’s her teeth. I think it’s a riding/training issue combined, and if people tend to agree that my snaffle should do the job, then I will stick with that, or possibly try a hackamore to see if that offers any improvement. Lessons for sure so someone else can watch.
