Stronger Bit?

[rainechyldes]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;4000066]

Snaffle bits and horses that throw their heads up when asked to stop. Every one. You don’t get that with curbs. There is no escape from throwing the head up so the horse doesn’t learn the annoying habit.
I ride with extremely soft hands and believe I could tie my reins to the bit with a single strand of thread and not break it on a 2 hour ride.[/QUOTE]

The right part of this Shadow is where you said you ride with extremely soft hands:)! You could probably put any bit on your guy, and because you have good hands, and he’s a schooled horse, he’d be fine.

A horse can/ will toss their head regardless of type of bit if the rider is heavy on their face, or the horse is unschooled, or defiant. Tt’s a defense in the first and an evasion in the latter example.

[SmokenMirrors]

While I applaud the OP for trying to figure out what her horses problem is, I do want to strongly caution her on using a hackamore if she hasn’t used one before. The pressure a hackamore causes on the nose can stop them right fast and in a hurry depending on how hard you pull back. I have ridden in a hackamore on my QH gelding for years, same with his sister Lucy and I have light hands, something that, to me personally, is a must!

[LookinSouth]

@Icecapade;4004357

thanks? I think

I think something being overlooked a little … a horse can be avoiding above or BELOW the bit…

just because his head isn’t sky high doesn’t mean he isn’t still completely avoiding

so a curb won’t always help… it usually hurts the situation. same with a snaffle, avoiding is above or below.

I was referring to your experience with a change in noseband. A figure 8 or flash noseband can make a big difference for a horse that has a tendency to gape. Of course it is the responsibility of the rider to determine WHY the horse gapes it’s mouth. Mine only does it when he is behind other horses and is determined to drag me along to catch up…when we’re out alone or going for a really tame ride we go in a plain noseband.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=rainechyldes;4004559]
The right part of this Shadow is where you said you ride with extremely soft hands:)! You could probably put any bit on your guy, and because you have good hands, and he’s a schooled horse, he’d be fine.

.[/QUOTE]

Yes I can ride in anything or nothing at all but my horses don’t get that way by dinking around. I say stop with my body and my voice and if the horse doesn’t take the hint I set him down. After being shut down a few times he learns when I lift the reins, sit down in the saddle with my butt and say HO he stops right away, no fuss and I don’t use the reins to signal the horse but only to reinforce my commands.
To me the reins are for back up. Your voiced, your body, particularly the legs and the weight WEIGHT of the reins are all that should be needed.
This comes by riding with definite cues, clear precise ones and only after they fail do you resort to the reins.
Yes I neck rein but my legs and hips turn the horse just as readily as the shift in weight of the reins.
I rode for more then 20 years without a bit in side pulls and decided that a bit actually wieghed less and I switched.
It takes me 1 1/2 years to 2 years to make a horse but by 6 months they pass most other horses in training.
I am really annal about my horse and his training and everything is gear towards making him what he is.

[cloudy18]

I really like the idea of trying the Figure 8 noseband first. No big change for the horse or me, I can work on my riding and her response w/out worrying about working a new bit. If whomever gives us lessons thinks she might dislike bits, then I can try the hackamore.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=ra![](nechyldes;4004559]
The right part of this Shadow is where you said you ride with extremely soft hands:)! You could probably put any bit on your guy, and because you have good hands, and he’s a schooled horse, he’d be fine.

.[/QUOTE]

Strider running a 50 with my daughter up. Notice the lack of bit and the loose reins. This is how all my horses go and I taught my daughter to have gentle hands
[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/5plpwz.jpg)

[Beverley]

You’ve gotten some good pointers, but I do want to throw out a little food for thought.

The first is, some horses just need a change in bits periodically. Not necessarily to a stronger bit, just a different bit. I had one that would just start ignoring the bit in his mouth- nothing major mind you, just a bit of lugging or some such. I’d switch to a different snaffle, maybe thin sweet iron loose ring instead of french link, for example- instant lightness again.

The other thing is- frankly, I’d try a curb. On a loose rein. I’ve had horses that would, for example, lug on a snaffle when hunting (especially with kids aboard)- I’d put a rubber pelham in, and they would not lug and would go happily and lightly on a loose rein all day.

Whatever you use, it’s true that educated hands are key. The flip side though is that those who say ‘use a snaffle, it’s gentler than a curb’ have never seen the 6-7-8 yo dressage horses I’ve seen with major scarring on the tongue from constant pulling by rider on snaffle. You can do significant damage with any bit. If, with a curb bit, your horse relaxes and goes on a loose rein, you’ll both be happier. With less educated riders, I’d frankly rather have a curb bit than a hackamore (I speak of mechanical hackamore types)- a horse will let you know in a hurry if you are too heavy handed with the curb.

[Summernyt]

I didn’t read all the posts but

it’s not really about the bit when you look at it honestly. I think of strong bits used harshly as the spandex shape-enhancers where you instantly “lose” 5 pounds…they make you look good, work for the time you need but oh what flab underneath!

You need to stay safe, but maybe spend some fun, no-brainer time just connecting with your horse so she stays with you mentally. It’s really about training and your riding, not bits, martingales or spurs.

I am finding with my cranky QH mare that IF I am mentally able to be patient, listen to her responses which have been deadened by insensitive training, she steps up to the plate. The lighter I am in general, the happier she is. Some of the most connected rides I’ve had are when I have no agenda, hop on in whatever I’m wearing or in a sundress. They feel the rider’s lightness and after some hesitation, enjoy it and maybe begin to trust it.

[cloudy18]

I see your point with the curb, Bev. I used to ride an Arab that was a fairly decent trail horse considering nobody had touched him for ten years and then I came along. (This was back when I was fresh out of riding lessons, but he was a pretty laid back horse.) He went ok in a snaffle, but could occasionally decide to be more stubborn. I’d switch to his curb and he settled right down.

That is why this guy suggested the curb. He said it worked for his horse, she stopped testing and pushing all the time. He figured the snaffle was just toughening up her mouth bc she could ignore it easily.

It is worth a try too. I’m not looking for an easy quick fix, but something that will make the horse happy, if part of this problem is actually caused by her unhappiness with the bit vs me/her stubbornness. Or a combo of all.

[Shadow14]

I’ve ALWAYS said it is better to have TOO much bit and use it GENTLY then not enought bit and use it HARSHLY.

[Icecapade]

Thanks lookinsouth… I wasn’t sure! lol

Thats what happened with me…

I fought and fought and fought with the snaffle when we were out- and it was so stupid… Gapping at the mouth and just a dead weight. and it was horrible for him and me, I felt terrible…

pehlam? no problems hardly at all.

more work with being attentive to the snaffle and a REAL NOSE BAND and I can ride him out now with it and not have nearly the issues, he still will get heavy on me but nearly as bad.

having the hands is crucial- but Shadow is totally right there is a HUGE difference in the weight of the reins… most of my headstalls have heavy reins, and I really don’t like my english rubber ones- so light, you constantly have to have a feel on them to keep the connection alive but its what it takes for certain disciplines… besides riding down the trail you really don’t need contact anyway… nice solid reins and a good horse? poo bah, you hardly should touch them!