Struggling with canter transitions--help!

[endlessclimb]

@IPEsq

I’m a bit surprised by these answers. Can no one else canter their horse on a loose rein sometimes?

Me too, jeez. I’d hate to be some of these horses, always being micromanaged/on contact. No one goes for a la-dee-da type canter through the woods? “Road trots” down a nice flat lane, light contact but not “on the bit”?

OP, does your horse have a rock-solid voice cue on the lunge? Personally that’s where I’d start. Then get in the saddle. Something in your seat/hands is aggravating him, so forego it and ask him for the canter strictly off voice (but be ready to back it up). Lots of praise when he does it.

Maybe he’s used to being micromanaged. Try getting the canter, then floating him the reins. Use your seat to control the speed/tempo. Try and get the downward with just your seat (and voice if needed).

I seriously think people need a mix of english and western riding to get a truly well rounded horse. Wenglish. Enstern. There’s no reason why we need to ride on contact every.single.second of every.single.ride. The hot sensitive ones need the reins floated and self regulation taught the MOST.

[findeight]

Well…see both sides here but there are horses that are, by nature, more tolerant and eager to please then others. Age and miles also create tolerance but cost more whether it comes naturally or is installed over time.

IIRC this is a younger horse and still Green? Correct? How many rides a week are you paying for and how many are you giving?

Have you had a sit down discussion with trainer regarding your needs and goals with this horse? Its easy to get on different pages when an Ammy has one goal and vision that meets her needs and trainer is has a different vision thinking of goals that meet trainers needs. Dont be afraid to discuss this with trainer, dont sit and stew over it, speak up to the person best able and who you pay to help you.

ETA; In no way am I discounting above soundness suggestions, has he had any recent imaging? Particularly hocks to fetlock behind and front feet. Easily evaluated with inaging equipment carried by most sports horse vets these days.

Stuff can show up when horses go into a regular program demanding more from them physically then whatever they were doing before, if anything. And don’t put any faith in them looking “off” with a strong rider- they just are willing to work through some pain rather then suffer correction from that strong rider.

[QHEventer]

[/quote]

OP, does your horse have a rock-solid voice cue on the lunge? Personally that’s where I’d start. Then get in the saddle. Something in your seat/hands is aggravating him, so forego it and ask him for the canter strictly off voice (but be ready to back it up). Lots of praise when he does it.

[/quote]

I had success doing this with my green, lazy warmblood that I was having similar issues with. Horse was definitely more of a pro-ride and what made a world of difference was starting off each ride on the line, with lots of transitions to sharpen her up AND to really reinforce voice cues. Most days, it’s like a 5 minute lunge just to “test” her transitions.

Once mounted, I have to make sure that we are FORWARD no matter what gait. I also started riding the horse more often than my trainer did (trainer hasn’t been on her in months at this point). Suddenly, I had a super responsive horse who I could ride (almost ) as well as my trainer!

I will warn you though, when the issue was at its worst (bucking if I backed up my aids with a crop) we had the vet out and she needed her stifles injected…so definitely look into a vet workup as well!

[Moneypitt]

Take a slow deep relaxing breath. Let out breath in same manner, slowly. Ask for canter. Softly. Zen moment awaits.

[RileysMom]

Thanks all!

Okay so yes horse is being an ass when I have to ask more strongly and drive and gets a little grippy. But he does need to learn to respond to a lesser cue, so there’s that.

I too see both sides. Horse is right, but he needs to meet human in the middle, especially since not a ton is being asked of him at the moment. He needs a few “oh s@#! she’s serious!” moments.

Oh and yes I suppose he’s still green in the sense that we’re having these issues and he started off green when I got him.

Also, I’m not discounting vet issues, but I doubt it at this point. Back rads are clean and he used to get pissy like this at the trot when I first got him and needed to learn his buttons. Now that I’m a better rider on him, that’s completely gone.

[findeight]

Unmmmm….maybe its time to look at where and with whom you are spending your training dollars?

There are always options. Its a business and if you had a “ serious disconnect” with, say, a hair stylist or a house painter, you wouldn’t keep hiring them. Again, this is a business issue with a service provider, you shouldn’t be frustrated, you arent doing anything wrong or betraying a service provider if you find another with a more supportive program for turning out an Ammy mount for an Ammy.

[RileysMom]

100% where my thoughts are. This is the horse. He’s a good egg and has kept me so safe. There’s so much good potential there and so many reasons why horse and I are a good match. We will get it.

[findeight]

Just dont be afraid to act. Every time I changed trainers mainly due to lack of satisfaction with trainers approach, it made me realize how much I was actually getting to dread going to the barn. Huge relief.

Its easier to make the decision when there’s obvious issues with care, dependability, abuse etc. Much harder when its more subtle and sneaks up on you and you cant really admit you hate your barn time. That barn time needs to be an oasis in your life, your happy place and sometimes its hard work to keep it that way.

[2DogsFarm]

@RileysMom

he’s only had one trainer, he only knows one way

IME, he can learn another way.
My WB was a former GP Jumper who thought a canter cue meant Depart As If Shot From A Gun.
And when I asked for softer, his GoTo was Up. At 17’3, not a good option.
Took some time, but with my trainer’s guidance - from the ground only - we got the depart so soft it felt like I just thought “canter”.

My current ride is an alleged (no registration) TWH, used exclusively for trails his first 13yrs. He gaits, and previous owner never asked for canter.
Took over a year to establish trot & we were just starting to ask for canter when COVID lockdown & (for me) massive car repair bills put an end to lessons.
Sloooooowly recovering from both & my latest accomishment was to take him to a Driving Club GTG & see how he felt about carriages.
He was fine, I count that as a Win.
The ringwork will eventually get back on track.

Unless you are fastracked for something that requires Instant Canter, IIWM, I’d slow down & work on connecting the dots for both you & horse.

[RileysMom]

Add the slight tendency to tip and get grippy and there you have the issue. It also explains why he’s so much better when connected—you CAN be and have to be barely cuing when you have horse electric under you.

[Scribbler]

I love it when my horse is this tuned up.

[Night_Flight]

OP, is your coach by any chance primarily a dressage rider? Their canter cue can be quite different from a hunter or jumper rider’s typical canter cue.

I used to ride a family member’s horse in the hunters and jumpers, and then he went off to a dressage trainer for some time to be reprogrammed as a dressage horse (ridden by new dressage trainer and family member). When I resumed riding him a couple of years later in dressage lessons due to family member’s injury, I had so much trouble getting him to canter because the aid had changed, and I needed to learn the dressage cue vs. the cue i was used to using on my jumper.

[RileysMom]

Yes, she has a foundation is dressage but also does eventing and h/j training. She originally had this horse earmarked as a dressage horse and before I bought him, I believe she had an assistant trainer who rode him for a while, now that I think about it. That person was a dressage rider. He’s never ever cantered like other h/j horses I’ve ridden and the cue has always been somewhat elusive for me.

[RileysMom]

Also, what’s the big difference between an aid for canter in dressage and h/j…?

[Night_Flight]

Much more about the inside leg than about the outside aid, and a lot to do with the seatbones.

You can most definitely reprogram a horse to respond to a different canter cue (as I described earlier but in the opposite direction) if you’re consistent about it.

It sounds like your horse has the dressage cue installed and just doesn’t understand what you want by the hunter aid and then acts out accordingly in confusion.

I felt like a completely incompetent rider when I struggled to get a canter in my dressage lessons so I understand what you’re feeling.

[PonyPenny]

@RileysMom

Also, what’s the big difference between an aid for canter in dressage and h/j…?

There is none. The canter cue is the same. My horse has no issue going from hunter to dressage and back. You don’t have to fuss with your seat. Sit up and ask.

[Tha_Ridge]

@StormyDay

I’m going to disagree with the majority here and say I would not tolerate this behavior from any of my horses. If any of my horses acted like that, they would get a sharp smack from the crop and a stern talking to.

Agreed. My 3- and 4-year-old pick up the canter quite easily virtually every time I ask and I certainly don’t ask 100 percent correctly 100 percent of the time. Forward is forward.

[Tha_Ridge]

@RileysMom

Told her to ask for canter normally. Horse hated it. Kicked out, sucked back. Let her play with him and after a few minutes she figured him out. He just does not understand a “normal” canter cue and requires much more subtlety from weight and hip.

This is still not an appropriate reaction from the horse though. I ride a lot of fresh imports who are trained the way you describe, but they absolutely still pick up the canter the “normal” way too. Physical issues not withstanding, I think horsie needs to suck it up.

[RileysMom]

Okay so many of you agree not an appropriate reaction from horse. So this loops back to how to fix it. The main issue I’ve had all along is that he NEVER does this with trainer. He’s done it with me in lessons, trainer jumps on, and in two seconds has a nice canter transition. Boom. And then I get told problem is me. Trainer would be the one best suited to give him a good smack, not me. I’ve tried to correct it but not consistently enough (and I’ve encountered it less and less the more connected I’ve ridden him) and I lack bravery of a trainer. And yes he is sensitive and I’d definitely call this a quirk, but not one this trainer can fix (and to trainer: “problem? what problem?”)

[danhelm441]

Ffs, you can teach your horse to canter any way you want to teach your horse to canter. Some of the posts here are way harsh. Put him in a round pen or on the lunge and teach him the voice command. That way, if he resents your timing or physical coordination, you don’t have to ask with your body at all.

But honestly it sounds more like he is being resistant because he doesn’t want to go forward, not because he doesn’t understand your aids. Try gentle but persistent nagging until you get the transition, then immediately release pressure, ask for a walk, and praise him. Maybe he thinks every time you canter, you’ll ask for prolonged exertion (or your pro does, but he’s shut down with her). Show him that you’ll reward a drama-free transition, and you’re not always going to ask for more.