Struggling with contact / connection

[BigMama1]

Sigh. I think this is a lifelong problem for me. Thought I had solved it last summer but here I am own 3 months back in the saddle after 3 months off and I just can’t seem to find that place where my horse is seeking the contact and reaching into it without me fiddling, holding or pulling.

Im 99% sure the problem is a combination of my balance (or lack thereof) and nerves since falling off. Even when I’m trying to be soft and following I suspect I’m balancing with the reins and my horse simply doesn’t trust the contact now even when it’s steady.

I’ve talked to my coach and she agrees with my suggestion of going back to lunge lessons, particularly without reins, until I feel secure and confident at all gaits without them. On days when I’m riding alone am trying to ride on a long rein focusing only on forward and rhythm and using myself to control the pace. I put my free hand in my hip, do arm circles, etc. It’s fine on my “good” side and I can do transitions, circles etc without any problem but on my “bad” side we can’t seem to much besides go large. Am also working on core strength, Pilates and yoga out of the saddle.

Any other suggestions out there?

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

I don’t have much to suggest, but I am following with interest as I also have issues in this area. I don’t think I am hanging or balancing on the reins; I think my issue is that my riding in my younger days was almost exclusively on trail horses that neck reined so I never had to do much with my hands - and now that I am riding with one in each hand, they want to do crazy things independent of each other. I too am working on core strength off the horse as I don’t think I have ever had much core or upper body strength.

[CFFarm]

I agree with your coach. Take some longe lessons so you can concentrate on your seat and what the horse is doing behind the saddle. Being “handsy” type creatures I think we worry too much about what the horse is doing front to back that they forget that the connection comes from the other way forward. Of course the rein connection is a big deal but until you have a confident, independent seat you can’t get there. Also ride in a fenced area so you feel secure about riding forward. Your horse knows when you are hesitant. Use visuals. Watch good riders and steal pointers. Relax and enjoy your rides. There will be good days and not so good days. The connection will come when you and your horse are ready.

[cnm161]

Echo CFF. Preach it.

What has helped me with hand-riding is consciously going to leg/core/seat every time I feel like I need to fiddle with the bit. It sacrifices immediate “fixes” but has made me much more aware of the things that go wrong at or behind the saddle that affect how the connection feels in your hands. One flaw: I have to remember to do it. But generally have had good success with this philosophy.

It’s hard to break hand habits when I spend 14hrs/day typing/writing/doing hand-based tasks and 1 hr/day riding. It’s a journey.

[sunhawk]

Take jumping lessons. Changing your focus into getting your balance in 2 point, with shorter reins, and knuckles into the neck, will help your learn to ride without the reins so much, and your balance will get stronger. What you are seeking is called an independant seat. There are times that to achieve what we want we have to get away from it a bit and approach from another direction. Kinda like teaching a horse to be straight by bending. You don’t need to jump big, even cantering over rails and small cross rails will help you improve your riding and contact issues.

[TequilaMockingbird]

I feel your pain. I had to take 6 months off due to a high risk pregnancy and I felt like I was learning practically from scratch when I was finally able to get on a horse again.

I am certainly not past my issues with the contact but what has helped the most along the way, besides as many hours in the saddle as I can get, are taking lessons with my trainer riding right next to me on another horse. She can see exactly what I’m doing with my hands and really get on me about them. She can see way more from that close than she can from the ground.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Practice with a partner. Each person holds the reins - opposing each other, and allow the other person to “move” your hands arms with their movements on the reins. Make sure your contact is from the elbow, not the wrist. You contact is not mentally following, but actually letting them move your arm. That is when you have a connection. A soft connection does not mean no weight on the reins. Your lower arm “belongs to the horse’s mouth”

[tbchick84]

All I can say is, whenever I lose my contact, it turns out I’m thinking too much about just hands and reins and forgetting the bigger picture. It’s those times when I just sit tall, keep a steady tempo and keep my hands in a box offering him something to reach into. That part is just the layout. The execution is using circles, transitions, suppling, bending, lateral work to get him working from the hind end over his back to that outside rein. I know I’ve got it, when I feel like I’m actually riding his hind legs only and can feel them stepping further underneath. I don’t know about other horses, but mine loves to lock into my rhythm and it really relaxes him and helps him stretch into the contact. Once we get into that zen thing, he feels like one big moving piece. It feels awesome.

[BigMama1]

^^^Thats the feeling I had glimpses of and so badly want to get back. Had a lunge lesson tonight and it really clarified for me that the problem is mostly mental / emotional and not as much about skills - although balance and independent seat do play a big role.
Honestly even at the walk or halt I couldn’t convince myself to drop both reins and ride with no hands. Rationally I know that hanging on isn’t going to stop a 17.1 hand horse from spooking, but it gives me the illusion of control. I honestly don’t think that until I can ride comfortably with no hands and / or stirrups, really gallop down the long side without hanging on for dear life, or just go for a hack outside without holding my breath, I’m never going to have that consistent, trusting connection I need.

Riding a different horse isn’t the answer - I don’t think I could find one safer. Today we rode in wind which made it sound like the arena might fall down while sharing the ring with a green horse who galloped, crow hopped, bolted, bucked and squealed on the lunge the whole time. My horse didn’t even bat an eyelash.

Doing another lunge lesson tomorrow and determined to let go of those damn reins. It’s such a vicious cycle - I get hurt so I can’t ride. When I come back I feel weak and unbalanced, which makes me nervous that I couldn’t sit out a spook. So because I’m nervous I ride less often, which makes me feel weak and unbalanced…

[atr]

I’m glad to see you are back in the saddle again. Cut yourself some slack. You’ll get it back.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Hope you don’t mind if I chime in again, Big Mama. Had a lesson tonight myself and while some progress was made, I got teary driving home.

Trainer pretty much told me that I have no feel (absolutely true) and that I overthink everything (also true) and that I have been at this a long time (also true, but that one hurt). I think she is frustrated that I am not “getting it” although I don’t think she has done anything especially creative to help me get it. In my defense, both of the horses that I have ridden in lessons with her have been the type that tend to suck back rather than go forward, and neither is particularly supple or in any way easy to get on the bit.

The biggest revelation tonight was kind of along the lines of what tbchick84 said, I need to work on the big picture because when I get so focused on the reins or what my outside or inside hand is doing, my legs stop working.

Oh to be a kid again and just ride.

[Zonderpaard]

@Fairview Horse Center

Practice with a partner. Each person holds the reins - opposing each other, and allow the other person to “move” your hands arms with their movements on the reins. Make sure your contact is from the elbow, not the wrist. You contact is not mentally following, but actually letting them move your arm. That is when you have a connection. A soft connection does not mean no weight on the reins. Your lower arm “belongs to the horse’s mouth”

This can be such a helpful thing to do.

I used to do this with people who were sitting on their horse. I’d hold the reins behind the horse’s head, tell them to look somewhere else (because you cannot feel when you are staring) and then I would move the reins and the horse does at the walk. Ask rider to ‘follow’–the idea being that through the entire oscillation of the horse’s head the weight of the contact was THE SAME and did not pull down or up. Just follow. So that is ‘neutral’. Then I’d ask the rider to take a slightly stronger feel and maintain the same wight through the entire oscillation. Then I would do some different things-move more, move less, etc, and the rider repeated the exercises. You can also practice a specific correction this way. And your coach can give you immediate verbal feedback the entire time.

The only way you can do this is by unlocking the elbow, neutralizing wrists, and making arms independent from body.

It takes about 2 minutes for riders to get the feel of following, making a blocking correction, and an immediate reward through the reins. You can convey exactly what pulling and not pulling feels like. How to have a conversation within the contact. Making the lower arm and the reins of the same quality in terms of feel.

[BigMama1]

@Groom&Taxi

Hope you don’t mind if I chime in again, Big Mama. Had a lesson tonight myself and while some progress was made, I got teary driving home.

Trainer pretty much told me that I have no feel (absolutely true) and that I overthink everything (also true) and that I have been at this a long time (also true, but that one hurt). I think she is frustrated that I am not “getting it” although I don’t think she has done anything especially creative to help me get it. In my defense, both of the horses that I have ridden in lessons with her have been the type that tend to suck back rather than go forward, and neither is particularly supple or in any way easy to get on the bit.

The biggest revelation tonight was kind of along the lines of what tbchick84 said, I need to work on the big picture because when I get so focused on the reins or what my outside or inside hand is doing, my legs stop working.

Oh to be a kid again and just ride.

I think we are riding twins

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@BigMama1

I think we are riding twins

At least we can commiserate!

[merrygoround]

Big Mama, until you let go of those reins, you will not make progress. Transitions and spiral circles can all be done without reins, while on the longe. If your horse will not listen to your legs and seat, find one who will. The only way to lean is by asking correctly and getting a response.

Ask your instructor for a neck strap, that may give you the feeling o something to hang on to, without greatly impacting your. Some horses do learn to listen to the neck strap though :winkgrin:

[PDDT]

Just getting back after being off a year due to horse’s injuries. I am also having trouble letting go!!! Sigh…it is not just one thing is it? It’s our fitness, the horse’s fitness, our fear if its there, and it is so darn frustrating when we can remember how nice it was when we had that independent seat.

[Scribbler]

Yes, as OP is discovering: if you can’t ride without reins, you can’t ride with correct contact. You need an independent seat so that your hands can do what they need to do, without you feeling unbalanced or unsafe. I have seen a number of adult re-riders or beginners in dressage fall into this negative cycle, when they advance to riding with clear contact before they really have the confidence in their security in the saddle. The reins then become both a physical and a mental crutch.

But of course if you feel like you have to have clear contact in order to brace yourself in the saddle, you are not going to be able let go and do the nuances needed to actually feel the horse’s mouth.

It’s a particularly hard thing to solve if the horse really is hot, fast, spooky, or a bolter, because the rider then has a “real” reason to be afraid. OP has a good calm horse, sounds like, so it’s more a mental adjustment and overcoming the fear of not being in control.

Longe lessons are scary but great for this, and if necessary, put a grab strap on the front dee rings of the saddle.

Riding walk/trot on the buckle, riding patterns on the buckle with just seat aids, halting the horse on the buckle with seat aids and no hands, are all other activities that will help OP realize horse can be controlled without the bit.

[BigMama1]

Super proud of myself in my lunge lesson today. Forced myself to let go at the walk and just walked around with my hands on my hips while chatting with my coach. Moved on to trot and was able to do arm circles (both at once), hands on hips, hands pretending to juggle, arms out to the side and arms straight up overhead. I didn’t feel fearful or nervous at all - just amazed at how hard it is not to close my hip and tip forward without my hands!

One good old session won’t solve the problem but it’s a good start. Am going to do this a couple times a week for a few weeks until I’m really secure WTC with arms up and, ideally without stirrups at the same time either.

My horse is a super lunge horse - very safe and reliable and super easy trot to sit if you keep it on the small side. Only problem is his “emergency brake” - if you do something that feels unbalanced innth saddle like posting “up up down” or you lean forward he worries that you’re going to fall and comes to a dead stop. It’s very sweet.

on a sort of related note, what do you think of the usefulness / safety of riding with sidereins off the lunge but under supervision? 20 years ago we always taught novice riders this way. It gave them more control of the horse while teaching them to have quiet, subtle hands and make changes through their seat and legs. I never see this done anymore but think it might help be get that feeling I’m looking for where I can forget about the front end and focus on what’s happening behind the saddle:

[netg]

@Groom&Taxi

Hope you don’t mind if I chime in again, Big Mama. Had a lesson tonight myself and while some progress was made, I got teary driving home.

Trainer pretty much told me that I have no feel (absolutely true) and that I overthink everything (also true) and that I have been at this a long time (also true, but that one hurt). I think she is frustrated that I am not “getting it” although I don’t think she has done anything especially creative to help me get it. In my defense, both of the horses that I have ridden in lessons with her have been the type that tend to suck back rather than go forward, and neither is particularly supple or in any way easy to get on the bit.

The biggest revelation tonight was kind of along the lines of what tbchick84 said, I need to work on the big picture because when I get so focused on the reins or what my outside or inside hand is doing, my legs stop working.

Oh to be a kid again and just ride.

I hope you’re on the market for a new trainer.

You sound as if you are trying HARD, and she isn’t helping. It doesn’t have to mean she’s a bad trainer, you just don’t work well enough together for you to improve. I have seen my trainer get elderly women with little ability to develop fitness due to health issues riding 3rd/4th level movements, safely, by working on what worked for them. I have nerve damage which affects my ability to use my left side properly and he has worked with me creatively and extensively. He has NEVER taken it out on me or the other ladies, and in fact has repeatedly expressed his admiration that we keep working and improving despite limitations. In his free time he researches new ways to present things, too, so he can show us new ideas, he brings in trainers who fit with his methodology but will word things differently who can help us learn, etc. You need this type of trainer who will work as hard as you are to improve, not one who will blame you due to his or her inability to teach to your skills/challenges.

BigMama - have patience with yourself! It sounds like the longe lesson helped a lot. You don’t realize how much core you lose in the time off, and that affects you AND it makes the nerves worse because your subconscious is aware of it. The longe lessons both help you re-stabilize your core and give you a chance to remind yourself of correct technique. Think how long it took to get there the first time - and you’ll get back FAR faster, just not instantly.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@netg

I hope you’re on the market for a new trainer.

You sound as if you are trying HARD, and she isn’t helping. It doesn’t have to mean she’s a bad trainer, you just don’t work well enough together for you to improve. I have seen my trainer get elderly women with little ability to develop fitness due to health issues riding 3rd/4th level movements, safely, by working on what worked for them. I have nerve damage which affects my ability to use my left side properly and he has worked with me creatively and extensively. He has NEVER taken it out on me or the other ladies, and in fact has repeatedly expressed his admiration that we keep working and improving despite limitations. In his free time he researches new ways to present things, too, so he can show us new ideas, he brings in trainers who fit with his methodology but will word things differently who can help us learn, etc. You need this type of trainer who will work as hard as you are to improve, not one who will blame you due to his or her inability to teach to your skills/challenges.

Thanks, netg. After Wednesday’s lesson with this trainer, I did make up my mind that I will take one more lesson with this trainer (in two weeks) in which I will show her that I can ride this horse in all the gaits - without stirrups and without contact - in reasonable balance and then be done. I actually have several trainers to choose from at the barn where I am currently riding - went with this one to take a few lessons because she has a long history with the horse that I am part leasing. I also took regular lessons from her a few years back on a different horse which is where the “you’ve been at this a long time” comment came from. As a trainer, she is really a whole lot more about the horse as opposed to the rider, and I get that, but I don’t need to pay good money to have her make me feel the way I felt after I my last lesson. I am trying hard (working within the constraints of budget and available, safe horses etc) and think I am stronger than she gives me credit for - I just can’t put it all together.