Any idea why Stubbens seem to have lost their popularity in recent years? Maybe their dressage saddles have never been that popular as I’ve never really seen that many people riding in them. Seems like the most popular brands now are Custom, Trilogy, Hennig, Albion, County and a few others. Is it a quality thing? I know their older saddles are notorious for having a hard seat.
I have had mine for 10 years and it just keeps getting better and better, but, I heard that actually the brand was having a resurgence in my area. I never thought it had a hard seat. I get on and feels like coming home.
I think it’s just a “fashion” thing, honestly. Some people seem to love the trendy brands, others just care about what works to their horse. We have several lifelong Stubben riders in our barn. They may not have the softness and leather quality of the higher end brands but they are great value for money and last forever. Some of their models are nicer and more comfy than others. If you don’t like the harder seat they have the Biomex option but personally I hate it. The ridges are in th wrong place for my butt LOL
I briefly tried as different brand. Nope. No good for me or the horse. Back in Stubben Genesis CL. The old lady needed the knee block with a very athletic OTTB. I love it… he loves it… life is good. As far as leather quality, I still have my 1963 Tristan. In good shape except the tree shows a crack. The “trendy” saddles tend to a softer leather that doesn’t last as well.
I’m not sure I’d call it “trendy” - Custom, Albion, Hennig, County have all been around for many years now, at least 20 years (and for some of those brands, WAY longer), and have been popular for at least as long - that says something for quality. AND they tend to fit horses very well - most riders in those saddles do care about what works for their horse! I had an Albion for a while that fit almost every horse (it was an old Style/SL) really well - I sold it about 15 years ago, and it held its value well.
For me, personally, the Stubben is just plain uncomfortable - I ride in a hard seat, that isn’t the issue - it is just not a good fit for me, and I suspect that is the case with many riders. And the panels just don’t fit MY horses well. I’ve talked to people who have tried the newer Stubbens, and all say the same thing - just didn’t like the balance/fit, and if they are trying the padded seats, it is just - wrong! Some of the older ones have a really narrow gullet, which doesn’t work on many horses well. Many have very “upswept” panels, again, fits a certain type of horse, but not most horses.
Why so dismissive - trendy, “fashion”? I know people who have been riding in some of those brands for over 20 years. I’ve seen people in Hennigs that were 25 years old, still going strong. I know people who have been riding in the same Custom saddle for over 20 years.
Stubben fits some horses and riders well - great, that doesn’t mean all the other saddles are just a passing fashion. Some of those other brands just fit MORE riders and horses better. That is why they are more popular - the leather is usually nicer, the fit is good for a lot of horses, and they are comfortable and balanced well for a lot of riders. So OP, IMHO that is the reason.
50 years ago when we were all riding hunter/jumper we all wanted a Stubben Siegfried. That was the ultimate. When they stopped making them in Germany many people didn’t think they were as good but I didn’t see much difference. The riders who could afford a nice dressage saddle wanted a German saddle otherwise we all started with a used saddle. Maybe that’s why?
I still like Stubben saddles but my horses are too portly to wear them.
I had a Stubben siegfried years ago and loved it. And I’ve seen the dressage saddles on horses and they looked great. I agree that people follow different fads in saddles. I don’t but I know people who buy certain brands because they are en vogue.
I paid Stubben $150 to try one of their dressage saddles. I loved the biomex seat and thought it was very comfortable. He did not have my size in his truck and said he could order one for me to purchase. When it came down to it, he said that once you order the saddle, it is yours with no trial period. I wanted a trial period because I ride in a 18.5 and all he had was a 17.5. He also said he could not get one to try either. I said I was not interested and magically he could get one. I was not happy with the customer service aspect. About 5 months later, I tried a Veritas made by Fred Taht. i am waiting for it to come, but they have a 10 day trial period which is much better than Stubben offered. I don’t know about you, but I want to try something that I am paying thousands of dollars for. When it came down to it, they just lost my trust.
Easystride, sounds like all you should have done was work with a store, rather than a distributor. Dover is easy to deal with, as are many other tack stores. That doesn’t really make the saddle bad.
Stubbens are too limited in their tree widths, as well as trial periods.
My circa 1985 Parsival A/P is still eminently rideable, and fit a variety of horses I rode for over 25yrs.
I got it on sale from a Dover catalog & there was a weeklong trial when you could return the saddle.
Sadly it did not fit the WB I got in 2009.
Thinking he would be my last horse & this my last saddle purchase, I got him a semi-custom Maestoso that suited us both in 2013. This one was fitted by a local Stubben Rep. She brought a variety for me to try, this was saddle #6 or so.
Horse & I said “YES!” from the first test-ride.
The new Deluxe leather is nice & sticky, I tried & did not like the Biomex.
When I lost him last year I found his replacement needs a riser pad for the saddle, but I won’t have it fitted to him until he develops some muscles.
S/B soon… once I can ride again this Fall (stoopid surgery).
So IME, Stubbens fit a variety of horses & me.
Not the softest seat on the Parsival, but it worked for me for H/J, Dressage & low-level Eventing.
Softer seat on the Maestoso, but not an armchair.
At one point all I had were Stubbens, but my then younger horse developed and they no longer fit him (both had been purchased for my then older horse and I was lucky enough to have them fit the younger one as well once he started u/s work). The problem was width and I couldn’t get a wide enough Stubben without going custom ordered and getting stuck with the result regardless of fit. Sooo not going to happen.
Oddly enough my saddles now are all made by two Canadian saddleries.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8772262]
Easystride, sounds like all you should have done was work with a store, rather than a distributor. Dover is easy to deal with, as are many other tack stores. That doesn’t really make the saddle bad.[/QUOTE]
I tried working with our local store that is a Stubben rep and did t fare any better than Easystride. Demos were only 17.5 seat and 30cm tree - I am a 19 seat and my horse is a 32cm gullet. No trial period, no option to return new if it didn’t fit. I did try a couple of used models they had on consignment in store and based on the “master saddler’s” recommendation I found one of those models used online in a 19/32. It fit my horse not too badly but had that fitter out to assess - he recommended a few changes to make it “perfect,” took it away to do the work and when I got it back it fit so badly as to be unusable. Could not or would not work with me to make it right, simply said that model of saddle wasn’t a good option for my horse, even though he had recommended it to me!
Long story short, I still think they are great saddles if they fit your horse and as I said above, several people in our barn have ridden in them for years.
My saddle search for this horse ended with a local Childeric rep - didn’t charge for visits / fittings, included custom adjustments at no extra cost, shape suits the shape of my horse with no major alterations, left me a demo saddle to use for the 10 weeks while my saddle was being manufactured, offered a very fair trial / return policy if the new saddle didn’t fit for some reason (it did!).
As far as I have seen, the old workhorse 1960s and 1970s Stubbens that are still around are a completely different breed from the current Stubbens.The old Stubbens are like old Passiers from the 60s and 70s, minimal rolls and blocking, no seat padding. My coach loves the old saddles (she grew up with them) so I’ve seen more than my share!
And of course most of the saddles of that vintage have very hard old flocking. You could get them reflocked, of course, very easily. But what often happens is people say, well, this saddle is only worth $200 or $400 or whatever. It has some serious wear and tear. It isn’t worth spending $300 more to get it totally reflocked. Besides, I’m only going to use it for a couple of months until I get a new saddle . . . and then they end up using it for years.
The fact that they are often so hard may make them feel even less comfortable to the rider . . . not to mention, to the horse.
The old Stubben AP I rode in for a while did put me in a chair seat. The very old completely flat, slippery Passiers are just too minimal for me, I feel even less secure than bareback in them.
I ended up with a 2001 Passier Optimum (lucky find, second hand as new), which has far fewer blocks and rolls than the current models. Even so, it has no relation to the old pancake Passiers in design, feel, or style. Hopefully, though, it will share their quality and longevity!
When I was shopping for a jump saddle, I tried a Stubben Roxane, with a Biomex seat. It was such a bad fit for the horse, tree so curvy that it rocked back and forth, that I never got to ride in it or see what kind of seat it gave me. But like the modern Passiers, the Roxane and indeed all the saddles on the Stubben website have no visible relationship to the old saddles.
old stubben:
http://myhorseforum.com/media/stubben-siegfried.463183/full
Stubben dressage saddle today:
http://stubbennorthamerica.com/product/d-euphoria/
The old Stubben looks like other old saddles of its era, and the new Stubben looks like contemporary saddles. So I would be surprised if the “chair seat” issue persisted in the new saddles, since everything about the design has changed.
It is true that Stubben has brand recognition as being a jump saddle first, rather than a dressage saddle.
I wonder if, ironically, the longevity of the old Stubbens is working against their popularity now? Almost everyone, it seems, ends up riding in a 50 year old Stubben at some point, or at least looking at one in amazement at a consignment store. So if you say “Stubben,” people think: AP, chair seat, hard seat, scuffed brown leather, low resale value, rock-hard stuffing. If you saw someone riding in a new Stubben, you wouldn’t even notice, because they look like all the other black, big-knee-roll, dressage saddles. So what people identify with the brand is the very old saddles.
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I personally like my Stubben Genesis with Biomex seat. I had a friend over and we tacked up the two horses. We switch mounts halfway through the ride. She did exclaim ‘Oh I love this one.’ (Stubben) It was very comfy for both of us. It fits both horses but I had to pull another out to ride together. Ouch when I got on the other. My bucket has gotten so used to the Genesis. We are one.
Dover does not offer any customized saddles including Stubben. You get what’s on the shelf. I know the manager personally there and that came straight from her. I just want to make sure I get the kind of customer service I need from a rep. They are your lifeline to getting things repaired, etc.
Egood-I sure hope you find a nice saddle.
We love our Stubbens, fit for us by an independent saddle fitter (not tied to any one brand; she has a very large area she covers). She told me when we were selecting my husband’s saddle that many of her clients were loving the “new” Stubbens, so the brand is apparently having an upswing in popularity, at least in some places.
I do not find them hard (neither does my husband) and they sure hold up great, too, but the most important thing is, of course, that the saddles we have fit our particular horses and ourselves so well.
A neighbor bought a Biomex Stubben, as she loved the lengthy trial (weeks) she got in a demo saddle with one; my husband also rode in a Biomex demo extensively but didn’t think it made a difference comfort-wise for him; he preferred the closer feel of the regular seat style, so that’s what he got, which saved us some money.
[QUOTE=easystride;8772656]
Dover does not offer any customized saddles including Stubben. You get what’s on the shelf. I know the manager personally there and that came straight from her. I just want to make sure I get the kind of customer service I need from a rep. They are your lifeline to getting things repaired, etc.
Egood-I sure hope you find a nice saddle.[/QUOTE]
Not true.
Dover can get you anything their manufacturer sells. So, if you wanted, say, their Portos in a monoflap (which they do not stock) you would just have to place a special order. They’ll get it for you - it normally takes 6-8 weeks to ship, depending on the manufacturer they get it from. I did exactly that with a custom Passier bridle - I quite literally selected the options from the ground up and ordered it through Dover.
Dover is also where I got my Stubben Zaria. It was a custom option someone else returned. I got it for a song because of it.
Regarding the popularity IMHO a lot of it is driven by what is in vogue, who sponsors what, etc - I have seen a lot of local people sponsored by the more ‘in vogue’ saddles - and that directly affects the clients of the trainer being sponsored because obviously the trainer will be pushing the saddle of their choice…
Case in point, Stubben is making a return in my area (Area I/MA) - for a while Devocoux and CWD were all the rage and lined the shelf of every big barn but now I am seeing many more Stubbens, with quite a few BNTs in the area being sponsored by Stubben now… perhaps people are realizing that quality, comfort and craftsmanship trump what’s popular…
I have always loved Stubbens – and Kieffers. I’ve sat in plenty of saddles and always go back to them. They tend to fit better with less restriction on the horse’s shoulders and tend to fit me the best as well.
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8772132]
I’m not sure I’d call it “trendy” - Custom, Albion, Hennig, County have all been around for many years now, at least 20 years (and for some of those brands, WAY longer), and have been popular for at least as long - that says something for quality. AND they tend to fit horses very well - most riders in those saddles do care about what works for their horse! I had an Albion for a while that fit almost every horse (it was an old Style/SL) really well - I sold it about 15 years ago, and it held its value well.
For me, personally, the Stubben is just plain uncomfortable - I ride in a hard seat, that isn’t the issue - it is just not a good fit for me, and I suspect that is the case with many riders. And the panels just don’t fit MY horses well. I’ve talked to people who have tried the newer Stubbens, and all say the same thing - just didn’t like the balance/fit, and if they are trying the padded seats, it is just - wrong! Some of the older ones have a really narrow gullet, which doesn’t work on many horses well. Many have very “upswept” panels, again, fits a certain type of horse, but not most horses.
Why so dismissive - trendy, “fashion”? I know people who have been riding in some of those brands for over 20 years. I’ve seen people in Hennigs that were 25 years old, still going strong. I know people who have been riding in the same Custom saddle for over 20 years.
Stubben fits some horses and riders well - great, that doesn’t mean all the other saddles are just a passing fashion. Some of those other brands just fit MORE riders and horses better. That is why they are more popular - the leather is usually nicer, the fit is good for a lot of horses, and they are comfortable and balanced well for a lot of riders. So OP, IMHO that is the reason.[/QUOTE]
I think there has been a trend towards tack customization and adding flair. Custom I think were one of the first saddle makers to provide that service. I actually bought two new Customs in the past year with colored piping and custom cantles :P.
I only ask because someone at the barn could be a new rep for Stubben in the area and it got me thinking about their general popularity. They always seemed like well-made saddles but never saw that many of them. I actually contacted a Stubben rep before I contacted Custom but never got a response.
My very first dressage saddle was a Stubben that was in the late 80s. I bought it used, knew nothing about saddle fit and had a terrible time with it. I was forever fighting my position. At my trainer’s advice I got a semi custom Passier PSL fitted by Jochem Schliesse himself. The saddle, horse and I did very well showing on the provincial level for many years. Unfortunately this saddle did not fit my current horse and I had to get a new custom saddle for him. This one is an Equipe from Italy.
I did ride in one of my friend’s Stubben later on but I was not comfortable. I guess they are just not meant for me.
