Stupid idea?

[Sunny74]

I have always loved eventing. I love the horsemanship involved. I love the versatility required of horse and rider. I love the no nonsense approach that doesn’t favor one’s pocket book but Instead favors one’s competence. I have also never evented because of the safety issues.

I feel like there are three segments of eventers. The Olympic or advanced level hopefuls that want to compete at the highest level and be successful. The next tier is the competitive amateur that wants to compete as high as they can because they like the challenge and purity of the eventing questions that require smarts and courage. The third tier I feel like is people like me. People who don’t fit in the other worlds but do fit at the lower levels of eventing. We can do it with a horse we own that might not be expensive or even registered. We can do it in safe but affordable tack. We don’t need fancy clothes. Most eventers I have ever met have been anything but snobby. They are a pretty accepting, live in and let live, type of bunch. We would do the lower levels because it’s FUN and an outlet for our horses and gives us something to work towards.

My idea is for the third group. Would it be crazy to make a cross country course with hunter/jumper type jumps? I mean just at the 2’11 and under level. Is this an insane idea? I feel like more people like me would do the sport if that was the case. I guess people have to realize that sometimes the low levels are people’s end game. Not everyone wants to move up. I get that purists would be horrified because eventing is supposed to test bravery and courage and be demanding. But, what if we changed our view of the sport. What if we said that eventing could be for the purists but could also be inclusive and include other types of riders with different goals. Sometimes, people are just happy at the lower levels. So, would this work? Would anyone else even want to do this or is it just me? If it wouldn’t work than why?

*edited to change height as novice might be considered low level.

[merrygoround]

Eventing does start at the lower level with low jumps. Eventing does have stadium, a jumper style course with fences fence height based on the level of competition.

Many top riders started their careers at these lower level. Most top level horses start their careers at theses lower levels.

In eventing the “Peter Principle” is frequently demonstrated, commonly without disaster

I recommend getting and reading the USEF rulebook, and actually attending some recognized competitions. It will increase your knowledge base.

[beowulf]

Would a Derby Cross be in line of what you’re thinking of? They do have levels “below” 2’6".

[Scribbler]

Certainly locally they run schooling level cross country with jumps of this level or even less. Little logs and such. They have the whole field open. You can probably find an unrated event near you. The one I’m familiar with goes one day and does cross country and dressage.

[Sunny74]

Thank you to those that responded. My question is…Have rotational falls ever occurred at the lower levels? If someone can tell me that there are zero rotational falls that have occurred at the lower levels (2’11 and below) than I will be on board with participating someday. I, honestly, do not know and am asking politely.

Are all the injuries only at the higher levels of 3’ and above? It just seems to me that I could make a simple mistake even at a low level and could have a rotational fall. Maybe this isn’t a possibility and I am just paranoid! Please educate me…would I be safe?

*edited to change height as novice might be considered low level.

[Scribbler]

@Sunny74

Thank you to those that responded. My question is…Have rotational falls ever occurred at the lower levels? If someone can tell me that there are zero rotational falls that have occurred at the lower levels (2’11 and below) than I will be on board with participating someday. I, honestly, do not know and am asking politely.

Are all the injuries only at the higher levels of 3’ and above? It just seems to me that I could make a simple mistake even at a low level and could have a rotational fall. Maybe this isn’t a possibility and I am just paranoid! Please educate me…would I be safe?

*edited to change height as novice might be considered low level.

I think you can have a rotational fall cantering on the flat.

[Horse_Rider]

What you’re describing is a CT or a hunter derby, both of which already exist. Plenty of those are done on grass with some terrain. Stretching them over a XC course would be difficult. As the jump judge, I’d have to reset my own fences, knowing another rider was coming. You couldn’t set standards on a hill or uneven ground - they’d fall. So setting SJ fences out across a XC fence is really best done in a level area, where multiple people can help reset fences - so a CT or hunter derby. Ta da!

I started in hunters. I’ve personally witnessed zero eventing rotational falls and seen 2 riders have rotational falls on a manicured hunter course. Terrifying. A friend had a rotational fall when the horse managed to get one leg over the pole, one leg under the pole and somersaulted on landing. She got lawn darted, thankfully, so the horse didn’t land on her and she walked away with a broken arm and concussion. My personal horse almost had a rotational fall on the flat. Went down on his knees, buried his nose in the sand and kept scrambling with his hind end trying to get up. His rear got higher and higher above his front until he flopped over to the side. Broke my helmet, my pride, and nearly my shoulder on level ground.

If you want to avoid all or most risk of a rotational, dressage it is. As soon as you add in jumps, the risk starts. Yes, some jumps and speeds are riskier, and not being able to get the risk to zero is no excuse for those in charge to do nothing about Evening’s death issue, but putting SJ fences in a field already has a name. It’s not going to replace eventing.

[Sue_B]

I came painfully close to being involved in a rotational fall twice in my life…neither time over a jump. Both horses somehow got their feet tangled up at the canter and almost cartwheeled on top of me. Somehow, working together, horse and I survived without disaster (although second horse did buck me off and broke my back but that’s another story.) So yes, you are just being paranoid. The best defense against injury is to ride a safe, well-trained athletic horse and keep yourself fit and balanced.

[MsRidiculous]

@Sunny74

Thank you to those that responded. My question is…Have rotational falls ever occurred at the lower levels? If someone can tell me that there are zero rotational falls that have occurred at the lower levels (2’11 and below) than I will be on board with participating someday. I, honestly, do not know and am asking politely.

Are all the injuries only at the higher levels of 3’ and above? It just seems to me that I could make a simple mistake even at a low level and could have a rotational fall. Maybe this isn’t a possibility and I am just paranoid! Please educate me…would I be safe?

I have literally seen someone have a rotational fall over a .90m show jump.

[Larbear]

@Sunny74

Thank you to those that responded. My question is…Have rotational falls ever occurred at the lower levels?

Yes, they can. I had one when I was first learning to ride x-country. Horse I was riding at the time pretty much was running away on me and very heavy in front. I couldn’t pull her up, guess I could have circled away but at the time (many years ago) it didn’t occur to me.

She hit the coop hard with her front end and both of us flipped over. We had enough momentum that she cleared me. We were both ok (dug about 20 lbs of dirt out of the back of my pants). It was back in the ‘old school’ days so we just dusted ourselves off and went back to try again. Very lucky for both of us…especially considering the technology for helmets back then wasn’t what it is now!

[Sunny74]

Ok, thank you. I guess there is a reason I am, primarily, a trail rider. sigh

I thought I might try the sport but I guess any jumping carries risk. From the above posts, it’s clear that all jumping disciplines carry the risk equally and it’s not just eventing and Eventing has the same safety issues as hunters and jumpers. Bummer. I guess I was just hoping for a way to safely participate. I will just continue to admire and support those that jump but from afar…

[gardenie]

Look up working equitation

[Highflyer]

There’s always a risk, but it’s pretty small at the lowest levels if you are sensible and safely mounted with appropriate instruction. I actually think it is probably more risky to drive there. You might want to look for Hunter paces/paper chases, where the jumps are often optional.

[Sunny74]

Gardenie and High Flyer…ok, thank you!

[Willesdon]

Falls increase in frequency the higher the level of competition so at the lowest level they are actually rare. I regularly spend a day fence judging 250 horses at a BE 80 or 90 and absolutely no one falls all day. The thing to remember is that the horses know the fences don’t collapse so they usually treat them with respect. However, rather than just having a go, the safer option is to obtain some expert training: riding xc is not the same as show jumping in an arena.

[Grasshopper]

Hi Sunny, if it’s specifically rotational falls that are keeping you away from eventing, as others have mentioned, they are very rare at the lower levels–so rare that they probably happen at least as often in show jumping/ hunters/ cantering on the flat. This is because of the physics of a rotational fall. The ‘classic’ upper-level rotational happens when a horse catches its front end on the jump and the jump acts as a fulcrum around which the rest of the horse rotates. If a horse catches a jump below its knees (with front hooves/fetlocks/cannons) then the force generally folds the lower leg back and the horse doesn’t rotate. If it catches a jump with its chest or above the knee, the leg cannot go back far and becomes a fixed point. Am I making sense? So for the average-sized horse, the top of the jumps have to get a ways above its knees before there’s much risk of rotational (because the average horse will usually at least start getting its front end up to clear the jump). Jump shape also factors in–at the lower levels you will find a lot of logs, whose rounded top is more forgiving and less likely to ‘catch’ a horse’s legs.

[gottagrey]

OP your group already exists - eventing has had lower levels for decades - now many schooling horse trials offer “elementary” level. When I first got into eventing some places had “chicken horse trials” where the jumps started pretty low and never really got higher than 2’6" - now those levels are included in unrated/unrecognized horse trials and beginner novice is included in rated/recognized events - height is approx 2’6" so those would fit into your comfort zone - elementary I think is around 2’?. Many event venues will also host combine tests - which are dressage and stadium/show jumping - again with varying degrees of height some starting at elementary on up. You say you trail ride - if you’ve jumped a log or hopped over a creek, you could probably handle elementary level without issue (can’t speak for SJ or dressage tho).

I can certainly understand your apprehension (which is why at age 50 I’ve downsized from 16.1 to 15 hands!) If you don’t want to compete in an event , but want to enjoy eventing start volunteering at a horse trial/event near you. You’ll meet super people, make some new friends, learn about the discipline. From my volunteering, I’ve met great people, now friends who I now travel with to international events. Horse trials are always looking for volunteers.

[Jealoushe]

@Grasshopper

Hi Sunny, if it’s specifically rotational falls that are keeping you away from eventing, as others have mentioned, they are very rare at the lower levels–so rare that they probably happen at least as often in show jumping/ hunters/ cantering on the flat. This is because of the physics of a rotational fall. The ‘classic’ upper-level rotational happens when a horse catches its front end on the jump and the jump acts as a fulcrum around which the rest of the horse rotates. If a horse catches a jump below its knees (with front hooves/fetlocks/cannons) then the force generally folds the lower leg back and the horse doesn’t rotate. If it catches a jump with its chest or above the knee, the leg cannot go back far and becomes a fixed point. Am I making sense? So for the average-sized horse, the top of the jumps have to get a ways above its knees before there’s much risk of rotational (because the average horse will usually at least start getting its front end up to clear the jump). Jump shape also factors in–at the lower levels you will find a lot of logs, whose rounded top is more forgiving and less likely to ‘catch’ a horse’s legs.

These are the false truths we spread which do not help our sport at all!

Rotational falls are not rare at the lower levels, you just don’t hear about them as often. The height isn’t the only factor. The closeness to the fence and the physics behind the speed etc are all a catalyst to a rotational fall.

Myself have witnessed many at the lower levels, including one that killed a horse, another that required a rider carted off in an ambulance, and I have only seen ONE at Prelim and above, and have been lucky enough to not see one at 5* even thought I attend Kentucky every other year.

[Jealoushe]

@Willesdon

Falls increase in frequency the higher the level of competition so at the lowest level they are actually rare. I regularly spend a day fence judging 250 horses at a BE 80 or 90 and absolutely no one falls all day. The thing to remember is that the horses know the fences don’t collapse so they usually treat them with respect. However, rather than just having a go, the safer option is to obtain some expert training: riding xc is not the same as show jumping in an arena.

Again, not true. Falls happen at all levels. Falls at the lowest level are not rare. Share your data.

Lying to ourselves is not helping us make eventing safer.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I had a horse do a full rotational fall (tail over ears) cantering on the flat in an indoor…we were both fine. Point…you don’t need a jump to have a fall, even a rotational fall.

But the risks of serious injury are definitely lower at the lower levels. If you want to enjoy eventing…there are many who event at the lower levels for fun. First make sure you get some good training and be smart about your schooling. But there are schooling shows lower than 18”.