Stupid Question: PNW Outdoor 365 Arena vs. Covered?

[SanguinePenguin]

Hey all, first post! Here’s the skinny: DH and I are preparing to build on our PNW property. No plans for a barn yet, because there’s an existing structure (to call it a barn/stable would be a stretch, but it does the job) and I ride in the field or trailer to friends/trainer.

Here’s my question: If money wasn’t exactly coming out of your ears, but you might be able to spend a little to get more or less what you want, would you rather have a big (100x200-ish) outdoor arena that had great footing, or a smaller (80x175-ish) covered arena, if you could only have one or the other?

Some of my concerns:

• lots of people I know ride outdoor, even through the rainy season. They seem to be OK
• lots of people I know talk about their dreams of covering their arena, and their eyes light up when they talk about it
• lots of covered/indoors are DUSTY, dark, depressing and cold.
• outdoors have to be watered constantly during the summer

In theory, I suppose I could build the outdoor, ride in it for a few years, and then cover it. But is that likely to happen? Is it as simple as it sounds?

Also, if you built a covered, would you attach a barn to it? That’s what I would like, but I’m not sure it’s within by budget, even for something with only 3-5 stalls.

If you have pictures of your set up, please include them! I’m looking for all kinds of barn inspiration!

Thanks for reading!

[retiredhorse]

Never built a barn or ring before. My vote is for indoor. But I really dislike riding in the rain and wind. Um, and I like to avoid the sun in the summer :lol:.

Where I stabled, dust was not a problem because ring was watered and maintained properly (don’t ask me how, I figured that was included in board/training cost; there were also rules about not turning out or lungeing horses in the indoor to preserve the footing). Did not find it depressing, though definitely darker than being outside. don’t think it would be any less cold outdoors in the winter/rain. I’ve seen pics of indoors where they have a lot of translucent/clear material on the sides? Those look super light. don’t know how much they’d cost, though.

It let us train (h/j) year-round, good for clients who rode after work or school when it was dark out, weather was almost never a good excuse to miss a lesson. The smaller ring (I don’t recall the dimensions, but it definitely long enough for a comfortable/forward 5 stride at 3’6 - 4’, maybe 6-7 across the diagonal, and an end jump or two) was an advantage at shows because you felt like you had so much time/space to get to the next jump in a bigger ring; could also be a disadvantage if you get “lost” or horse got excited/spooky or you didn’t work on opening up horse’s stride.

[SharonA]

Big outdoor arena with good footing wins over small indoor. Not even a close contest.

I love an indoor, don’t get me wrong. In my area, if you don’t ride in an indoor, you may not be riding for the winter and early spring. But in order to be nice to ride in, an indoor ring has to be big enough so that you don’t lose your mind after riding around and around for several months (it needs to be big enough for riding lots of different patterns, not just around to the left and around to the right), and they have to have light and ventilation, and they still need good footing, maintenance, etc.

Edited to add, oh, I missed the intended size of your indoor. That would be a fine size for me. But to confess my own ignorance, is an indoor of that size comparable in price to an outdoor ring of the size you mention?

[Brigitte]

To me, 80 x 175 wouldn’t be a “small” indoor! It would be heaven!

[jonem004]

Build the biggest, bestest outdoor you can and then down the road throw a clearspan tent/building over it. If it’s big enough you can put the stalls on one end of it. Not dark, cheaper than traditional wood structure (I think), but I don’t know about durability so do your homework of course. I live in New Mexico and while rain isn’t an issue I would punch a dolphin for a roof to ride under. Or lights to ride at night. God, what if I had LIGHTS!?!

[Guilherme]

By “cover” you mean a covered arena vice a full indoor, yes?

If so go with the cover. The cost in that structure is in the width. So take you width down to 70-75 feet and you can likely end up with a 20 x 60 meter plus which is what we have in East TN. We, too, get lots of rain (50+ inches per year) and staying dry in our wet, colds months is nice. For us we also have the advantage of shade in the hot weather (something you PNWer’s don’t have to sweat much!!! ).

Adding an extra bay or two (our supports are 25-30 feet apart) would allow you have as much as a 60 x 70 foot structure for a barn area. If it’s a cover then you’ve got an “open air” barn but depending on you local micro-climate that might be just fine. Build a small enclosed structure for a feed room, tack room, and heated wash rack and you’ve got a pretty nice setup. You could “wall” part of the structure if you wanted to, or even the whole thing. This might make economic sense over building a separate barn structure.

If you keep you cover at the true 20 x 60 size you’ll have a little money left over and you might be able to grade out an out door with a basic footing. It all depends on how much dirt you have to move and what you base soil is like. No guarantees here, just a thought!

G.

[SanguinePenguin]

Guilherme, I like your idea, and thanks for the helpful knowledge–I didn’t know width was the cost-driving factor. I am a little confused about your concept of the “extra bay” and the “open air” barn. Can you sketch me a picture, or give me a mental image of what this would look like? A 60x70 barn would be pretty big…

Do you mean extending the cover (of whatever type/material) out to be an overhead for the stalls, but not actual lids on them?

[Bluey]

There are fully enclosed arenas and covered arenas, with one, two, three or four open sides.
The open sides may have part way down walls, pony walls part way up, the distance between those may have screens to keep rain and snow mostly out, let air and light in.

When it comes to which kind of materials, those cloth covered arenas cost as much if not more when you figure the foundation/pylons, etc. and repairing and replacing the cover, compared with a metal clad building.
They do have more light in there, a trade off that, but may have more condensation problems than metal barns may.

Last time we checked, the cost of metal framed/covered structures is not that high under 100’ width, over that it increases much more quickly, because the framing then has to be much stronger than under 100’ width.

As far as lenght, that you can go as long as your budget permits, once you have settled on your width.

The important part is that for an arena, you need a clear span inside (not to be confused with a brand of fabric covered arenas called Clearspan), that is open, no post in there.

The barn you want attached to the arena structure can be an overhang, on the long side or short side, as wide as you need, generally enough for an aisle and stalls all along the outside, maybe with ouside of the stalls runs for the horses to have more space to move around.

That can be built after the arena itself has been put up, if you want to wait to have more money down the road for that.
I would not count on using that very valuable room you need to ride inside to put stalls in there.
They can be added on the outside of the arena much cheaper, rather than making the arena larger just for them.

Hope that makes sense.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

My guess is the cost difference will be very large, but if I could afford a covered 80 x 175 I would go for it. I have ridden in an indoor that was exactly that size and it was very nice. If it was a large 100 x 200 outdoor vs. a tiny indoor, like a 60 x 120, I would choose the outdoor with all-weather footing.

[poltroon]

I have not experienced covered arenas as dusty. True indoors yes. Merely covered no. A covered arena is a real pleasure to ride in summer and winter.

Is it just you? What discipline do you ride? This is going to be part of the equation, and also in terms of keeping whichever maintained.

An outdoor with engineered footing and site prep can be rideable all winter if it is maintained, IME. You wear rain gear. This can still be really expensive.

My experience in California is that the days you most lust for the covered is in the summer, not the winter. Remember too it’s not just grey days but the distribution of the rain. If it is light rain over many days, that is going to be different than heavy rain for a month solid, and you might look at some precipitation graphs for the specific pocket where your farm is. Where I live, annual rainfall can vary substantially within even 50 miles.

[ladyj79]

Growing up and now back in the pnw, a million times a covered ring first choice. That is plenty big.

[Guilherme]

@SanguinePenguin

Guilherme, I like your idea, and thanks for the helpful knowledge–I didn’t know width was the cost-driving factor. I am a little confused about your concept of the “extra bay” and the “open air” barn. Can you sketch me a picture, or give me a mental image of what this would look like? A 60x70 barn would be pretty big…

Do you mean extending the cover (of whatever type/material) out to be an overhead for the stalls, but not actual lids on them?

No luck adding photo.

I’m not affiliated with this company but they have a nice picture of a simple, covered riding arena. The posts holding up the roof are likely in the 30 foot range a part. So if you did a working area of 70 feet x 200 feet you would have a 20 x 60 meter working are (a magic number in the dressage world ). If you were to add an extension of a post or two at the end of the arena you could have a barn area.* It would be “open” in that there would be no full walls but it would have a roof. You could add full or partial walls around all or part of the stall area, as needed and as you finances permit.

Covers are NOT cheaper that full indoors because they must be a more robust structure as there are no walls to add “rigidity” to the building. It’s also an “airfoil” under the right conditions. In snow country it has to built for the expected snow falls. It MUST be built IAW the building codes where it is erected. Don’t cheat on this!!!

In a warm climate it’s and excellent idea as you get shade, protection from rain, and do not need any sort of air handling system (those can be expensive to install and require electricity meaning more operational costs)… I’ve been in a couple that had BIG ceiling fans (10 foot plus blades) that move air on a hot day. We do not have any sort of fans. It’s just too hot to ride here maybe 10 days a summer. In the PNW the big advantage is protection from the rain and no need for any sort of air movement system. It’s also quite easy to light for night work at a very modest cost. When we built ours we used “yard lights” like you get from the Co-op. Ours has 8 that cost $65/ea. when new. They are bit more today as ours are mercury vapor and the new ones are LEDs. The good news is that the LEDs more energy efficient.

If you are someplace where you have deep cold or lots of wind a cover might not be right. You have to build for your geography, not mine!!!

You also have to build for your use. We don’t do any jumping or driving so the basic 20 x 60 works well for us. We have done some work over fences in the past but it was a very low level effort meant to prepare the rider for an unexpected jump over a log on a trail, not a trip to Spruce Meadows or the Olympics!! And we’ve done some driving with training carts and Meadowbrook but nothing more serious than that.

This can work if the discipline and geography align!!!

G.

*Want to be Mondo Kool? Put the barn at one end and build your house under an extension at the other end! Then you can put a picture window in a sitting room and watch the goings on in the arena!!!

[Gloria]

To me, the minimum size is 20 meter x 60 meter (that magic number in dressage, lol), so if the maximum length of cover is 175’, that will be a deal breaker for me. However, if you can afford 80x175 covered arena, you can afford the 70’x200’ covered, plus more for stalls, due to the cost of the width exponentially higher as width goes up, as pointed out earlier. However, if this arena is for jumping, then 70’ is probably too narrow.

By the way, the cost of covered arena is most likely three times as the cost of outdoor, so plan accordingly. If you can swing that kind of money for a covered, go for it. You won’t regret it. Oh and the Big Ass Fan is wonderful (it literally is called Big Ass Fan). They are also pricey. Expect to pay upward of 10K for the size of the dressage arena.

[Nestor]

Covered, for sure.

I’m riding in a 70x160 indoor and it is plenty big. If you can do bigger, great! Do keep in mind that these buildings cost more than you likely realize, though, once you factor in site prep, foundation, architect, permits, etc. A ginormous outdoor with the best footing in the world probably won’t cost anywhere near what a small indoor costs.

Re: dust for the covered/indoor or watering the outdoor, use mag in the footing! No dust, no watering, super easy! Not cheap, but a heck of a lot better than watering all the damn time.

[Bluey]

You don’t need an architect for a covered arena, unless you want to add architectural details to it, over what such a functional structure provides.

What you need is a manufacturer that presents you with the certified plans their engineers put together from your specifications and a bid on providing those.
You go to a local civil engineering firm with those plans
They will tell you what kind of foundation works for that structure where you are building.
They will sell you certified foundation plans for those initial engineering plans.
They charge by the hour and are a very small part of the total cost.
They also can advise you about any builders, permits, or which ones you need and where to go apply for those with the manufacturer and their foundation plans.

You then can contract with a concrete company to build your foundation, pylons and such, as per civil engineered plans.

With all those on hand, you find an erector of such buildings, generally a commercial builder, that will give you a bid on putting all that up for you.

Or you can start with the commercial builder and let them provide you with all that.
Important to check references very good, to insure it will be someone that will stick with their bid, won’t nickle and dime you to death and the whole ends costing way more than expected.
Not everyone is honest when working with an owner that doesn’t know what they are building.

[Brave_Mucker]

We were faced with the same question…which to build first; indoor or outdoor. Went with the outdoor. Even in the cold weather it is enjoyable, lots of room to push jumps off to one side etc. Did not have to fuss with lighting, water, etc. The expense to expand it a little longer (we went 100 x 230) was minimal. Got exactly what we wanted.

Best of luck

[costco_muffins]

If you can afford covered, go for it.

For us, however, the difference in cost was a factor of 30. An outdoor arena was less than $10K. A covered arena in the PNW, with our permitting (if it was ever actually approved, which was a MAYBE in our county) would have been $300K. For us, those two weren’t comparable.

[happilyretired]

I’m in Central Florida where covered arenas are the standard for “indoor arenas”. They are great! No walls so open to prevailing breezes and protection from the sun so much more comfortable riding in hot weather. Protection from rain unless it’s a real driving “sideways” rain situation. Set up irrigation if you can to keep the footing watered. Of course in Florida they are engineered to withstand hurricane force winds and we don’t have to worry about snow loads, but then you probably don’t either unless you’re in a mountainous area. Without a covered here there would be many unrideable days due to rain, or hot sunny weather. As others have said, width is a major cost driver due to the size of the steel trusses required. Good luck!

[Calvincrowe]

Are you on the wet or dry side of the PNW? As a long time rider on the ‘wet’ side, the cost of building and maintaining a true 365 outdoor is not insignificant. Preparing a base–with built in drainage and then adding quality footing is expensive. I love a good outdoor, and prefer a barn with the option of riding outside, but an indoor is essential for our cold, dark, wet falls and winters. Yes, width is the deciding factor in arena buildings. Wider is more money. You can’t add width, but you can add length after the structure is finished. Whatever you choose, do it right the first time–professional installation will save you money down the road. I always cringe when I read “help me build a ring for under $5K” because that ring in our area won’t be usable much of the year. Definitely see how your land drains and what kind of soil you have.

[AKB]

My daughter put in a 50’x100’ covered arena at her house in Maryland last year. She loves it. It is tiny, but she rides in it almost every evening after work. It is also an extra place to park the hay wagon during an unexpected rain storm and a paddock for the lame horse who had to be confined. The arena is cool in the summer and pleasantly dry in the heavy rain and snow. I think it cost about $60,000. Some day, if she ever has extra money, she plans to expand the arena.