Successful WB crosses with APHA blood? Marketability?

[Heinz_57]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6823434]
If your looking at a live cover option for the added security. Is it possible to research if there are any other stallions locally that offer live cover ? Perhaps it will give you a few options.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been scouring the web for them, but no, I haven’t found anything. If I wanted to go with a Friesian or TB, they are out there, but no WB. I’d not be opposed to TB, but they are all race-bred and the stud fees are quite high compared to their WB counterparts.

Back to the drawing board! Any suggestions on stallions to consider?

[JB]

[QUOTE=Kerole;6823276]
I realise I am not in your market (being half way across the world and all!) so this is to be taken with a grain of salt.

I LOVE a funky coloured horse and have bred a small number myself (in amongst the more usual solids) but I will not look at a horse to buy, or mare or stallion to use that gets its colour from QH or paint lines. Full stop.

Even if I took my breeder’s hat off for a moment, would I buy a part paint/QH riding horse? If I never intended to sell it then maybe. But it’s a small maybe.[/QUOTE]
See, I’m the opposite but I’m one who buys to keep for life, and though I’ve bred once, I’m not a breeder. However, I have a TB mare (whom I did breed) and I seriously looked at some APHA stallions to give me a spotted Hunter.

I am not alone, though I realize we’re not a large market, among folks who would LOVE a spotted Hunter or Dressage horse, and if it could do the job I wanted, or had the potential (ie by a Paint stallion who was already known to be able to put nice sporthorse types on the ground WITH a Hunter jump, then being a Paint would not remotely put me off. I’d LOVE to find one with that sort of pedigree as, all else equal when comparing to a spotted WB stallion, the cost is probably going to be less. Good for me, though I realize not so good for you, the breeder LOL

So, that’s the flip side

[JWB]

But I think a stock horse crossed on a TB is a much more known quantity… The stock horses use them very liberally and there a good market for them (although typically at lower prices than a comparable WB) but when you toss the WB into the mix, it is just throwing a huge mess of other genes into the “what might come out” lotto that breeders play every year.

[JB]

But, it REALLY depends on the WB lines. Some of them are heavily TB. Some of the “stock horse” horses are 7/8ths TB and you might as well be breeding to one.

I’d never breed a heavier WB to a QH/Paint, no matter how nice the QH, if he had a lot of stockhorse type behind him. I wouldn’t breed to a QH like that anyway if my goal was to produce a sporthorse, no matter how nice either horses are

[JWB]

Also I sent you a PM - Live cover - not so much of an option but I used Concerto Grosso and he’s HUGELY fertile. It seems like if you throw his semen in the direction of a mare in season, it will somehow magically find it’s way to the mark.

We used him twice, once right on time, and the other time the vet was concerned that we’d ordered semen too early (decided to hang onto that follicle like crazy). First cycle pregnancies both times anyhow.

I also think he’s one of the true bargains of the nice sport horses out there. He’s licensed Old-NA and AHHA.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Concerto-Grosso-Holsteiner-Stallion/124947127575824?ref=ts&fref=ts

[magicteetango]

Bred my mare to Concerto Grosso as well and had a first cycle pregnancy. Rosemarie was great to work with.

[TKR]

There are alot of “racebred” Thoroughbred stallions that aren’t filling their books for the season. You can often get a better deal than the advertised stud fee through agents if the stallion is syndicated or even if he isn’t. Many of those standing to the racing market have wonderful conformation, gaits and pedigree for the sport disciplines. Not sure how far - but there is a Cozzeen stallion standing in Washington for $500, damsire is Seattle Slew. You could check with the racing associations in your state and nearby for directories or check the stallion registers of The Blood Horse magazine. You could be pleasantly surprised if you want live cover. It never hurts to call a stallion owner and see what might be negotiated. Shopping around might reveal better opportunities for your mare with a wb or a TB that offers more than the local APHA.
PennyG

[Nootka]

http://www.eswaterford.com/ In Chico CA. Maybe ship her down to their vet care?

www.crestlinefarm.com Ship up to Lower Washington

Below are in Oregon- you will have to call about the live cover

http://www.pacintgen.com/christopherrobin.htm -not approved waiting on performance requirements
http://mycorteo.com/index.html
http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion1237.html
http://www.cedarwoodsequestrian.com/default.cgi?id=61

[Heinz_57]

Not sure why I didn’t think of it before, but what about Gatsby (for AI, not live)? I’m not completely ruling out AI, the option is still on the table. Gatsby is just up the road from me, I wonder if I might be able to go see him in person…

[JB]

Gatsby is actually now standing at, and will be showing Hunters out of, Mountain Creek Sporthorses He’s not SOLD to them, it’s an arrangement between them and the Wiltons

[Heinz_57]

Next (silly) question:

What would the registry options be for a foal by a TB stallion? I’ve always been confused by this.

As I mentioned, my mare is reg. Westphalian.

[Lynnwood]

Sent you a PM

[ThisMagicMoment]

What is your mare bringing to the table? Is she registered? Approved in anything?

Breeding for the sake of breeding is not worth it- there are so many horses in the world. You have said you want this foal to be a riding horse for you with the potential to resell at a later stage. If your only option is a stock stud because you want a live cover, why not purchase a well-bred weanling from a breeder? You still get the joy of raising it and developing it, but you will have access to good bloodlines (and no worry of vet-bills for no embryo).
I hope this is not taken in the wrong light, but a stallion should never be chosen for convenience above all else.

No, I would not breed a stockhorse to my WB mare. If you are going to breed your mare, why not breed it to a stallion that will keep the foal active in the same market?

[NoDQhere]

[QUOTE=Heinz 57;6822997]
Just curious if anyone has had or knows of successful crosses of WB with some APHA (or QH, I suppose) blood.

Plan B for my WB mare is to try and breed her again this year, if she is going to be out of commission for a while (currently slightly lame). And in my perusing of (mostly WB) stallions to choose from, I’ve run across a local-to-me APHA stallion that has gone through AWS approval (I know, NBD) and has a nice sporthorse build with an unbeatable temperament. I went so far as to go see him in person, and was rather impressed. I should also add that this particular stallion is nearly 50% TB blood, which may account for the more sport-type build.

I’m giving the idea some consideration, but wonder about the marketability of such a cross? Offspring could (would) be AWS registered, for whatever that is worth - and while the intention would be to produce something for my own enjoyment, I would still like to ensure that the market value is there in the event that selling became necessary.[/QUOTE]

Over the years we bred a few stock horse crosses using Meisterwind, a Trakehner on Appaloosa and paint mares. We always got pretty, nice moving youngsters with a good jump and very good temperaments. They were never hard to sell for decent money.

[magicteetango]

Heard lovely things about Gatsby. I also would not breed her to a Paint stallion unless I was sure it was a keeper. I don’t think they are awful but as someone else said, lots of unknown variables involved. I would also anticipate it being a tough sell until it was under saddle or at that age anyway.

[Heinz_57]

[QUOTE=magicteetango;6825282]
Heard lovely things about Gatsby. I also would not breed her to a Paint stallion unless I was sure it was a keeper. I don’t think they are awful but as someone else said, lots of unknown variables involved. I would also anticipate it being a tough sell until it was under saddle or at that age anyway.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I’ve decided to pursue other avenues. I appreciate everyone’s input. Off to start a new thread about registry options. :lol:

[Snowfox]

We have a great TB/Paint that has shown the Jr Hunters and Eqs very successfully. He’s not for sale but we’ve had a lot of offers. A nice horse will sell regardless of color or breeding IMO.

[mbm]

honestly - a good horse is a good horse - no matter what the breeding.

the question is: what would you want to market it for?

i do believe any sound, well trained horse has a market. and there are a bizillion QH’s out there for a reason.

So, i would be more concerned that the stallion fit the mare more than the fact that he is part QH.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Heinz 57;6823203]
Good lord no. :lol: My mare is a grey, so probably not the first choice for anyone who wants a sure pinto. I haven’t had her DNA’d to find out if she’s homozygous grey, although that’s probably a good idea.

You’ve inadvertently discovered part of the reason I consider this stallion (other than liking him as a match in general). After a VERY spendy failed attempt at AI with this mare, a nice stallion who is local and offering live cover seems an attractive option. The SO and I have talked at length about the process and she runs a top notch operation, not some backyard mudlot.

Now, looking back, I got taken for a ride by my vet (who I won’t be using again). We started the process just after she’d cycled in May, put her on Regumate and then cycled her back in. She positively FLEW to a 29/30 follicle, fast enough that he was doing ultrasounds 2x a day to avoid missing the window. Did that for 3-4 days until she slowed down again and went back to checking her once a day until she was a 34/35 (IIRC, memory is fuzzy - I got married right around the same time). Inseminated 2x 12 hours apart just pre- and post-ovulation, put her back on Regumate and preg checked at 19 days and found nothing. I’m sure there were a few more steps to the process that I’ve forgotten, but the farm calls alone for 2x a day ultrasounds put me in the poor house. Now, I suppose he could’ve missed it and there’s a baby in there somewhere, but that seems unlikely. :lol:

That’s the truth. I’m afraid to run up another $2500 vet bill with nothing to show for it![/QUOTE]

maybe you can find a reputable vet where you can take your mare and leave her for a week or two? it sure would save on call charges. this is what i did because the idea of my vet having to travel to me daily was sobering - so off my mare went for a week long stay at his place. it was actually quite nice price wise.

good luck no matter what you do. if you are interested in producing a WB x pony many pony stallions do live cover…

[Megaladon]

[QUOTE=Heinz 57;6822997]
Just curious if anyone has had or knows of successful crosses of WB with some APHA (or QH, I suppose) blood.

Plan B for my WB mare is to try and breed her again this year, if she is going to be out of commission for a while (currently slightly lame). And in my perusing of (mostly WB) stallions to choose from, I’ve run across a local-to-me APHA stallion that has gone through AWS approval (I know, NBD) and has a nice sporthorse build with an unbeatable temperament. I went so far as to go see him in person, and was rather impressed. I should also add that this particular stallion is nearly 50% TB blood, which may account for the more sport-type build.

I’m giving the idea some consideration, but wonder about the marketability of such a cross? Offspring could (would) be AWS registered, for whatever that is worth - and while the intention would be to produce something for my own enjoyment, I would still like to ensure that the market value is there in the event that selling became necessary.[/QUOTE]

Cocolalla Creek Sport horses has a successful program. I think there will always be a market for trained horses with a sound mind and body.