Suggestions for dealing with VERY aggressive mare and foal?

[alterchicken]

Mare and 3 mo old filly at side just arrived after long distance haul. Had thought filly was halter broken but appears to be virtually unhandled. She is wearing a fly mask that is so outgrown her eyes are pressing against it and old owner apparently could not remove it (found out after arrival here).

Mare seemed nervous but OK initially however has violently attacked me twice. Once through the stall door window - reared up and lashed out with teeth bared as I was walking by, and a second time when I was filling her water bucket…seemed fine, ears pricked, quiet and then suddenly ears flatten, teeth bared and went for my face. Mare then spun around fast and presented me with her hind end as I backpedaled out of the stall.

Got after the mare after this incident (yelled and poked her bum with broom handle to get her turned around). Mare standing in corner with ears pricked so started talking to her and walking in slowly and quietly with my hand outstretched, planning to catch her. Filly is at her side facing me and kicks the wall with one hind HARD. Then spins and like lightning lashes out with BOTH hinds with everything she’s got, right at my head!! Literally missed my face by inches as my life flashed before my eyes :mad: This filly is a BIG beefy stout Warmblood and could have taken my head off.

Have turned them in and out by letting filly follow mare and I can catch mare with grain. Ridiculous to have a filly of this age and size trotting loose behind mom and only a matter of time till that situation will get out of control. I need to get the fly mask off filly and get a halter on her but right now it’s like taking your life in your hands just to go in the stall with them. If it was JUST the mare or the filly that would be bad enough but with both so aggressive and totally unpredictable it’s just downright dangerous.

Suggestions anyone??

[rodawn]

You should also have gotten after the filly. Filly is copying mom. Don’t handle either of them alone. You need some professional help from a trainer who is used to handling mares and foals, and I suggest you get help double-pronto. This forum is not the place to provide you the sort of help you need. I urge you to be very, very careful and never let your guard down at any time you are even with 20 feet of either of them.

[Samotis]

Wow that’s scary, be very careful because there are 2 of them!

I would wean the baby sooner thEn later. She is learning very bad habits from the mother.

I think you will need someone to hold the mom and someone else help you catch the foal to get the mask off then just put a thin leather halter on her that you can keep on that would break easily if she gets it caught up in something.

It’s hard enough to handle a mom and foal, put danger into it and it really gets scary.

Good luck, but I would get that foal out of there.

Is the mare aggressive to the foal at all?

Where did they come from? Did the breeders have any experience?

[runwayz]

can you try some oral Ace or other sedative to see if you can get them quiet enough for the moment to get that mask off and a halter on? Put it in the grain. It will take up to an hour to work and you probably need a pretty good dose, around 6cc’s or more.

[alterchicken]

Believe me I am a very experienced breeder/horseperson of several decades, just have NEVER dealt with either a mare or foal like this, let alone a pair at the same time :eek: It’s an extremely dangerous situation and literally it was the closest I’ve ever come to being killed by a horse and it definitely shook me up and I was not being careless. I DID get after the filly after she kicked at me but believe me I have not once gone into the stall with them again, I feed and water through the feed door and keep the stall windows closed. I catch the mare AT the door with a bucket of grain, I’m not putting myself in that position again.

Clearly they are scared and unhandled but while some horses in fear go to “flight”, these ones definitely go to “fight” in a major way. I’ve dealt with plenty of unhandled youngsters over the years and typically they just run away and can panic once you catch them and put up a struggle but never had one turn aggressive. Once you catch them and they figure you are not going to hurt them they have all come around quickly. But no way am I going to go in even with a second person and attempt to corner and catch this filly and I seriously don’t know at this point how to safely even get that mask off!

I have barely touched her nose through the feed door once (acted like she got an electric shock!) and she shows some interest in the grain bucket when her mom is eating, so I’m hoping if I get the filly onto grain that I can at least get her close enough to get a rope around her neck before she can swing her bum around.

I can see the mare coming around as at least she’s halter broken. She doesn’t trust people but I can see gaining her respect and hopefully making her much more manageable, though she’lll never be one I’ll turn my back on! But the filly is another story.

My first thought was I have to get them separated but I’ve never weaned anything at 3 months old and really hate to do it! And that would mean that I would actually have to get her halter broken to even get her out of the barn if she can’t follow mom anymore and that in itself could be quite a dangerous battle. No way I’m turning either of these out into a pasture until I can reliably catch them as I’d probably never set a hand on them again! Right now it’s stall and then turnout in the round pen until I can get a handle on the situation. Filly has probably never been wormed or had her feet done either. She’s also full of burrs.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Not experienced in that either…but drugs don’t sound horrible to at least get your hands on her to get the mask off. Otherwise…a cowboy with a good rope. Sure hope they are fancy…

[Molly_Malone]

Is there any way you can set up their stall with it “fenced” in half so that you can get one either side of the panel so separated but not, if you see what I mean? Get the filly eating grain out of a bucket in your hand?

[jdeboer01]

What are the bloodlines of these two fire breathing dragons?

I think you’re going to have to find a way to get some good tranq into the baby. Know anyone with a dart gun or a jab stick? Then get the fly mask off, halter on, and wean her.

The mare might benefit from some round penning/join up type training. The filly needs a “come to Jesus” moment, that’s for sure!

[paintjumper]

If they were here at my place…

I would have the vet come with a dart to sedate baby, remove the mask and “handle” her until she is fully awake. I would put a baby breakaway halter on her so she is more easily caught.
Mama needs some MAJOR round pen work while baby chills in the stall. While mama cools out after her workout, I would go to the stall and work little Ms Priss.
I once bought a mare w/ a 7 mo old stud colt by her side and he had never been touched, we did this with him and he came around in about a week+. We did all the work initially in my “breaking stall”. It is a blank stall without anything for a panicked baby to get hurt on…like buckets or hay racks or whatever.
We just handled him, later “sacked him out” with a feed bag, taught him to lead, picked up feet and whatever else we could think of before we ever went outside with him.
He was in fight/survival mode for the first 2 1/2 days but each day got better and by the end of the week, he was cautious but easily caught. He wanted to kick too, but each time he turned his butt to me, I said “Come here” and whacked his hocks/butt/ankles with a shortened longe line (I cut off most of the “whip” part because it was too long to use in the stall, I left about 10-12 inches at the end, this kept those back feet further away). ALWAYS keep your emergency exit to your back so that she does not pin you in
When he faced me I spoke softly and worked my way slowly to his face. If he turned to kick, I repeated the “come here” and then whacked him again. It did not take too many of those lessons to figure out I was not interested in seeing his backside. Each session lasted until the baby was completely relaxed either from being too tired to fight in the beginning to being comfortable with us later in the days following.
She’s getting bigger by the day, I’d start right away. And wear your riding helmet, I did.
Be careful, things can happen very fast in the beginning.
Good luck with them both.

[Edgewood]

@jdeboer01;6486074

I think you’re going to have to find a way to get some good tranq into the baby. Know anyone with a dart gun or a jab stick? Then get the fly mask off, halter on, and wean her.

This what I would do, call around to local vets, usually at least one has access to a dart gun. I would want to dart the filly and get that fly mask of ASAP before the mask injures her eyes since she has outgrown it. And while tranquilized, you can put a halter on her and a catch rope.

[okggo]

Yikes! I had a friend with a mare similar to what you are describing, sent people to the hospital more than once. She would look fine, and then in a snap charge - the worst in the stall. It killed me they kept breeding her, because temperment is one of THE most important things I factor into breeding selections! I would absolutely tranq them BOTH, and spend the time with the filly away from the mare (so you don’t have to watch your back for the mare charging you!). I would also be very very tempted to wean them early. There is no way you’ll be able to work with the filly or even get her curious enough to come up if the dam is trying to attack you.

We had a pretty feral filly once that we purchased, who came around very fast when put with friendly sociable horse companions. They get curious, and mimic what they see the others do.

[ise]

Did you buy these two? Whether you did or not I’d have a serious discussion with whomever sold/sent them to you. We don’t use fly masks because we turn out at night and would never put one on a foal anyway.
I’d have the Vet out and Tranquilize the mare and then try to use the mare to block the foal and get hold of it. You may need several people helping you to do this to at least get the damn fly mask off it’s face.

If you can set a bucket low with foal pellets in it - add a little Quitex and see if it calms the foal down. If it does - up the dosage until you can actually touch the foal every few days.

Good luck and for God’s sake be careful.

[Marwencol]

Is it possible to sedate the mare, then get the filly into some type of a squeeze chute? I have rigged up a chute using corral panels in an emergency situation when a yearling filly of mine injured herself and then refused to stand to let me change the bandage. (I did not have any help available and this was the only way I could safely get the dressings changed.)

That might be an option if you would prefer to not have to sedate the filly.

I second weaning as soon as possible. One aggressive horse is dangerous enough. I couldn’t imagine having to keep an eye on two at once.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

The mare may become submissive in a squeeze shoot type of deal. I had one mare one time that would not let me catch her after foaling (funny enough was fine with handling her foal just aggressive if I came at her with a halter as I guess she figured I might take her away??). Anyways, foal was having trouble nursing, she was not aggressive to the foal but would not stand and became a bit aggressive to me if I tried to catch her. So took a portable panel and “squeezed” her into a corner in her paddock. As soon as I did she became totall submissive back to her usual self and the foal drank and I had no problems handling her from then on.

I would try this with this mare. If she was still aggressive afte a few handling sessions I would look at early weaning. The foal would not be near as confident by herself and she is also young enough I am sure she will turn right around with some major handling and a bit of time. When weaning put the foal with an old horse or another super friendly/super quiet horse that she can mimic behavior from.

The mare I would work with or send away to a good trainer. If still unpredictable after a period of time (1 or 2 months) I would either put her down or give her to someone that wants to deal with her behavior. I wouldn’t tolerate it in my own mares and would not even want her on the place myself.
However, I am suspecting she is just very nervous/insecure in a new place as well and should hopefully come along in a bit of time. But I would seperate her from the foal to atleast eliminate the need in her mind to protect the foal and work on building a relationship just with her.

[EquusMagnificus]

Drugs, a good dose of them.

As I read it, we are wayyy beyond “let’s be friends now”. I’d wean the filly, weaning takes away a lot of arrogance now that mom is away and typically, it’s a good time to teach them stuff.

You might want to continue with daily doses of Ace in their feed if need be to handle them. If I am not mistaken, research has found that small doses of Ace do help with learning as they reduce the level of anxiety. I wouldn’t waste a penny on anything natural supplement of sorts, you are beyond that. Whatever you’ll give them needs to work, and work now.

[europa]

All these suggestions are really good. I would not trust that mare period until the baby is weaned. If she is that big I would wean her as well.

I would make sure I have a long whip with me in every encounter where you need body respect. That is awful…please be careful.

My mares have been soo sharing and loving with their little ones…I guess I have been very fortunate.

I hate flymasks. I would get my hands on that baby ASAP and start working with her for manners.

I would not rebreed a mare like that EVER.

[Sunnydays]

I must agree with Europa. Why rebreed a mare like that. Good luck. You have found yourself in an unenviable situation.

[rodawn]

Alter, I wasn’t suggesting you weren’t experienced, quite the opposite… I was trying to make the point that this is far too dangerous a situation to deal with by yourself - even if you have 30 years of experience handling difficult horses, this one beats it - you need a team helping you, some of whom might include your vet if he has a tranq gun. Filly will try to defend her mom, and the mom will defend her filly and both will be against you. Even with sedation, a horse can pop out of sedation really quickly and surprise you with a really fast reaction. You might want to consider wearing an eventing vest as well as the helmet that was suggested above.

I also agree this is a mare that should never be bred again. And frankly I’d be kinda wondering whether the filly would ever be breeding material when it’s grown up. Fillies sometimes replicate their mothers when they have their own foals. These are traits that are passed down through the generations.

Even without a foal to protect, she just might be the kind of mare that you can never let your guard down around when handling. You may want to rethink whether that’s even worth it.

[D_Taylor]

And they were confined when they lashed out? Like in a stall or small turnout?

If yes how do they behave when they have an escape from you?

[jdeboer01]

[QUOTE=rodawn;6487241]
I also agree this is a mare that should never be bred again. And frankly I’d be kinda wondering whether the filly would ever be breeding material when it’s grown up. Fillies sometimes replicate their mothers when they have their own foals. These are traits that are passed down through the generations.

Even without a foal to protect, she just might be the kind of mare that you can never let your guard down around when handling. You may want to rethink whether that’s even worth it.[/QUOTE]

I dunno. I’ve known of a mare or two that are sweet puppy dogs, 100% of the time, until they have a foal to protect. Then they got nasty! But once the foal was weaned, mares were puppy dogs again.

Also, we don’t know what the circumstances were here, and the OP wasn’t asking for breeding advice.