Suggestions for horse that gets very upset at overnight shows

[fancy.pants]

My lovely 11 year old gelding gets very nervous at shows. We’ve come a long way using Tristan Tucker’s techniques, but I do finally have to leave him to sleep. I was with him tonight until 8, my groom checked him at 9, and by 10;15, the night watch folks called to tell me that he had dug a massive hole in his stall.

She suggested a stuffed animal hung in the stall, and I’ve heard that a mirror can help horses that paw in trailers (he does that too). There are horses all around him–that doesn’t make a difference.

Have you faced this, and what worked for you? I want to start showing him at CDI’s, but don’t know how he would survive 4 nights! Sure, we can put in mats, but I want to address the hysteria. Thanks in advance.

[DownYonder]

That is really tough to deal with. At least yours only gets upset at night. Mine goes into a frenzy anytime he is in a stall at a new location. He doesn’t paw a lot, but instead walks the stall like a maniac. At different shows over the years - he has beaten his face to a bloody pulp rubbing it on the front bars as he paced, he has had to be sedated and couldn’t be shown, he has worked himself into a colic ($600 emergency vet call!), he has had to be hand-walked and hand-grazed pretty much non-stop (at a 3-day show – I think I lost 5# just from walking him, LOL!). He is somewhat claustrophobic, which is bad enough, but what really sends him over the edge is hearing all the activity - particularly other horses moving around in their stalls or walking around outside, and not being able to see them. There was a sort of funny episode at one show a couple of years ago where he piled up all his hay and shavings into a big mound near the wall, and stood on top of it so he could touch noses over the wall with the horse in the stall next to him – we could see him visibly relax every time they touched noses! He does calm down late at night after everyone has left and the horses are all settled down, but he starts up again in the AM the minute people start arriving and he hears the other horses stirring. The only place he is not quite as crazy is at a facility where the stalls have bars all the way around. Since he can see the horses beside him and behind him, he is much calmer, although will get pretty anxious if all the horses in the neighboring stalls leave. He is also this way at “new” barns, unless he can put his head outside a window and/or over the stall door/stall guard, and he can see the horses next to him through the bars. This has been going on for all of the nine years since he was imported – he just can’t handle the sensory overload and it sends so much adrenaline pumping through his system, he becomes like a caged tiger.

I haven’t tried the stuffed animal/mirror route, but we have pretty much given up on showing, nor do we clinic at other facilities. He is capable of scoring over 70% and is schooling PSG, but it isn’t worth the stress to either him or us.

I have heard that the fly masks with neoprene ear covers and poms can help with horses that overreact to noises, so you may want to think about that also. Good luck!

[DownYonder]

Wanted to add but it won’t let me edit my post - at Regionals a couple of years ago, we didn’t take him to the showgrounds until the morning of his class (his ride time was 11-ish), then we took him back home pretty much as soon as they posted scores (he didn’t make the awards ceremony because he decided he couldn’t possibly poop and canter at the same time - LOL!).

[Forte]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;9043578]
That is really tough to deal with. At least yours only gets upset at night. Mine goes into a frenzy anytime he is in a stall at a new location. He doesn’t paw a lot, but instead walks the stall like a maniac. At different shows over the years - he has beaten his face to a bloody pulp rubbing it on the front bars as he paced, he has had to be sedated and couldn’t be shown, he has worked himself into a colic ($600 emergency vet call!), he has had to be hand-walked and hand-grazed pretty much non-stop (at a 3-day show – I think I lost 5# just from walking him, LOL!). He is somewhat claustrophobic, which is bad enough, but what really sends him over the edge is hearing all the activity - particularly other horses moving around in their stalls or walking around outside, and not being able to see them. There was a sort of funny episode at one show a couple of years ago where he piled up all his hay and shavings into a big mound near the wall, and stood on top of it so he could touch noses over the wall with the horse in the stall next to him – we could see him visibly relax every time they touched noses! He does calm down late at night after everyone has left and the horses are all settled down, but he starts up again in the AM the minute people start arriving and he hears the other horses stirring. The only place he is not quite as crazy is at a facility where the stalls have bars all the way around. Since he can see the horses beside him and behind him, he is much calmer, although will get pretty anxious if all the horses in the neighboring stalls leave. He is also this way at “new” barns, unless he can put his head outside a window and/or over the stall door/stall guard, and he can see the horses next to him through the bars. This has been going on for all of the nine years since he was imported – he just can’t handle the sensory overload and it sends so much adrenaline pumping through his system, he becomes like a caged tiger.

I haven’t tried the stuffed animal/mirror route, but we have pretty much given up on showing, nor do we clinic at other facilities. He is capable of scoring over 70% and is schooling PSG, but it isn’t worth the stress to either him or us.

I have heard that the fly masks with neoprene ear covers and poms can help with horses that overreact to noises, so you may want to think about that also. Good luck![/QUOTE]

I have a horse that was very similar to yours. She would break into a full body sweat the moment she was put in a strange stall at a show or a clinic and display colic-like symptoms. I gave up on ever overnighting her at shows and ended up hauling in to the show every day and hand walking/grazing in between classes. Interestingly, after quite a few show seasons of doing this, she seems to have grown out of this behavior. I’ve been able to go clinics and lessons and put her in a strange stall before or after my lesson (albeit in a fairly quiet barn atmosphere). This year I hope to try leaving her in a stall at a show again. One thing I did find very helpful was to NOT put her in the strange stall as soon as I arrive at the venue. I tack her up by the trailer, do my ride and then put her in the stall once she’s been ridden and worked off some steam and that seems to work a lot better for her.

[mvp]

OP, have you tried to teach him how to attend a sleep over? Not all “kids” are good at that, out of the box.

IME (as a poor kid in HunterWorld in the last century), it was part of a young horse’s training to go to 5 days shows and Just Survive. All the beast had to do was go do a bit of sight seeing, lunging or riding twice a day. By Sunday, with some experience and thanks to being a bit tired, the horse made better decisions… and gave himself a more relaxed experience being At A Horse Show.

Other good horsemen I have known have put kick chains on their pawing horses. The horse won’t hurt himself if he doesn’t choose to paw.

We always had haynets in front of them 24/7.

I suppose that some horses never get good at Sleep Overs, but I think that’s probably a small set among those who are smart enough to be trained as show horses.

I just mention this because so many modern folks don’t see Going To A Sleep Over as a specific skill to teach a horse. And, of course, it has become insanely expensive to take a baby to a 5-day practice show. Sigh.

[Velvet]

Yep. Lots of overnights. Even at a trainers barn to get in a couple days of lessons or training. They need to go again and again, so they realize eventually they go home, and that you will be there and haven’t abandoned them. A new barn for a couple weeks and having to make new friends also helps. They learn to adapt.

[dudleyc]

I have a friend with this problem. This mare never got over it and she would trailer in. Mare is now 17 FEI and very competitive. Obviously not eligible for cdi’s

[keysfins]

Is the horse alone? Does the horse have a buddy at home? Having a barn mate in the next stall could help, even during the “Sleepover Training”.

MVP, I appreciate the suggestion of “installing” this skill in a youngster or even as an older horse. As with many things, horses don’t come pre-programmed knowing the things we will ask of them. And sometimes they clearly let us know where there is a gap in their training or desensitizing.

[Libby2563]

[QUOTE=mvp;9043649]
I just mention this because so many modern folks don’t see Going To A Sleep Over as a specific skill to teach a horse. And, of course, it has become insanely expensive to take a baby to a 5-day practice show. Sigh.[/QUOTE]

Not to de-rail, but I’m curious: is Being Turned Out Alone also a specific skill set that a horse should learn?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Libby2563;9043881]
Not to de-rail, but I’m curious: is Being Turned Out Alone also a specific skill set that a horse should learn?[/QUOTE]

I think the horse will tell you: If his wheels fall off when he’s turned out alone, then I’d say that he does need to be taught how to do that.

What I mean is that you can never tell what will be obvious to a horse and what will not. Nor do all people require/expect the same things of horses.

I like to make sure a horse can do everything I think someone will ask of him. Either I teach him the easy, well-planned way… or someone else who didn’t know he didn’t know throws him in the deep end.

Oh, and my favorite thing/expression is “bar broke.” That means the horse knows how to stand quietly in the trailer for as long as you want to spend at the bar on the way home from your work with him.

[csaper58]

Perhaps stall drapes will help?

[keh]

Bringing a buddy for sleepover training can go terribly wrong. The nervous newbie can project anxiety to the seasoned veteran. Ask me how I know. I would ask your vet about a sedative & then do some overnight clinics & such.

As for turning out alone, i think they need to cope when their pasture mate leaves to go to work. That’s an important skill set. If they prefer a turn out partner, I see no reason they should have to learn to be alone…unless you don’t have a suitable partner.

[Hilary]

What is his home environment? Has he ever lived in a busy barn? I have to say I agree that he needs to learn how to adapt to different environments if he is going to be a show horse.

Do you treat him preventatively for ulcers before overnights? or shows in general?

If he lives at home in a quiet barn, I think the first step is to board him at a busy barn for a couple of months. And take him to shows where he overnights but doesn’t show, or a clinic where there’s less pressure and you have more flexibility for him.

And, be careful that you are not contributing to the problem by giving him attention every time he acts up.

He goes somewhere, he is left to his own devices, he learns that you do come back, and he lives. Making sure he’s safe, of course, but if he doesn’t know how to be in a new place, you need to teach him.

[J-Lu]

YES! I have encountered this with my own horse. He generally travels well but for some reason, the last time he went to the Raleigh show grounds we ended up in a stall without floor mats and he covered himself (and the adjacent tack stall) in a fine mist of red clay. It’s only funny in retrospect.

Tristan Tucker is using very basic Natural Horsemanship a la American/Australian Natural Horsemanship. It’s snazzy because he’s Australian and applies it to FEI-level dressage horses at European shows. I saw his demos and met him in person at Indoor Brabant. I suggest finding a bona-fide NH person who is QUALITY and yields results for horses in your discipline and work in person with this person. Timing is everything in this type of training.

When my nervous horse travels, I hang a hay net which is average hay layered with alfalfa flakes. He spends much of his time trying to get at the alfalfa, which derails his tendency to get upset. The alfalfa trickles down to the average hay and he then tries to get a that. For him, a slow feeder hay bag is counter productive because he gives up on the work required to get at the hay. However, sometimes he just gets upset for whatever reason, like the incident I mentioned above. He was stabled next to his trailer mate and could touch noses with the very very tall horse in the stall behind him. There wasn’t much I could do, that show was generally a wash. But other times, he traveled very well (calmly stayed overnight). Who knows what sets off a sensitive horse.

I learned that he loves stall guards and is happiest when he could look out and watch what was going on around him. This made him very calm.

i spend a lot of time walking my horse around the show grounds and grazing him around the arenas. I usually stand in the judges box while leading him. However, he has a disconnect between what he experiences being led and what he experiences being ridden, and sometimes all of the ground work doesn’t help the under saddle work much. My horse notes the changes in the shadows and I can’t train for that. But often, familiarity with a ring area helps.

i think it can really help to get these types of horses out to longing either in or around the arenas early in the morning, or hand walking them and doing ground work around the area early when one has the place to themselves. Many horses will recognize the familiarity of the area, but other horses (like mine) will notice the different shadow angles and this approach doesn’t always work.

I often to a certain quick set of exercises to supple my horse at home, and I use these exercises at shows to get my horse to key into the fact that he has to listen. I suggest establishing a very, very solid set of ground work and under saddle exercises that you can pull out when your horse is very upset to calm him. In addition, layered alfalfa! This all works for me and is just a suggestion for you.

[RedmondDressage]

I had/have this issue with my PSG horse. I ended up retiring him over it, but he was 21 so it was easier to justify than at 11. His issue, which started only at shows, has actually gotten worse over the last couple of years culminating last year in what the vet determined was a severe panic attack. He was literally dripping sweat and just shaking, I truly though that was my last day with him. While that was the most severe episode he has continued to be over reactive at home and very difficult to take anywhere. He has similar episodes of sweating profusely, shaking, and getting panicky in the trailer. I tried several supplements for him, none of which made a noticeable difference. Finally my vet said to try CBD tincture (CBDs are the non psychoactive part of marijuana - I’m in WA so can buy it in our retail stores). He hasn’t been on it long so we’ll see how he does on it over time but it is the only thing that has made a significant difference so far. He is already a different horse. Unfortunately that is not at all competition legal so not really helpful but I’m finding the change in him pretty fascinating so I’m sharing. We’re planning a very short trailer trip to ride offsite for the first time in months this weekend so crossing my fingers it goes well.

[fancy.pants]

Well, thanks for all the suggestions and support. My boy did better last night, but his upset times are when he’s first left for the evening, and first thing in the morning, when people start to arrive. Dug two smaller holes this time. I think he actually likes the giant stuffed bear I hung up–nuzzled it a lot, but still dug this morning. He’ll stay again tonight, and I hope the long stay will help. We have a CDI in 2 weeks, so this is our practice run.
I should repeat that he is fine when we are with him, its just when he’s left alone that he gets upset. And, no, we don’t rush back to his stall and give him attention when he paws. We find it the next time we come back. So, I need suggestions for when he is in the stall alone. There are horses around him, so that’s not the issue, although, I’m sure we’ll run into a time when there aren’t any. He’ll have to deal with that, too.

[mvp]

Well, throw him a bone and try to not set him up to be in a stall in a strange place where he doesn’t have company for a while.

They do learn to cope, but it takes time. If you throw 'em in off the deep end, it creates a bigger trauma for them to overcome.

It sounds like your horse is doing better today and this is how it will go… slow and in increments. Keep taking him places and try to be business-like with him, as you are.

I know that with unusually insecure horses, I need another, more experienced horsemen to “hold my hand” a little bit with some reassurance that I am doing the right thing and should be patient.

[enjoytheride]

The first time I took my grey mare to a show she spent 2 hours cantering inside of it and was a danger to herself and others whenever she was out of it.

I took her A LOT of places and by the second season I’d arrive to find her face covered in manure as she used poop as a pillow. She learned to nap in between classes as well.

She got over it.

[happilyretired]

Have you ever tried ear plugs? One of my trainer’s client’s horses is like this at shows and they say ear plugs help him quite a bit. Don’t know where you get them but they are evidently made for horses.

[sparkygrace]

Having been through this with my own horse, I can definitely relate. He was sent to a trainer for a year who hauled him to other farms, clinics, and shows. It took a year of consistent venue changes before he settled down at shows. He is confirmed stall-walker who would wash out at shows, drop weight and be very reactive. When he was good, his scores were close to 70% We tried a mirror and that did seem to work. I know someone else who felt a mirror made a huge difference with her show horse. Putting on miles with your horse may be the answer for you and it is worth trying a mirror so he has a buddy in his stall. For some horses, it’s a tough problem to solve.