Off property she is the same, except she does this towards the trailer or stabling.
Scoped clean for ulcers. Tried two months of misoprostol and Sucralfate (thinking maybe hindgut) and nothing changed.
She eats Vermont blend and timothy pellets. For supplements, she’s on KER rite trac and cosequin ASU plus. She also gets adequan.
We took her off soy thinking that may be a problem, but the diet change hasn’t helped. We tried vitamin E (emcelle), that didn’t help.
She gets seen by one of the best equine dentists out there every six months. It is definitely NOT teeth as he was just here in November.
You might all think I’m totally crazy when I suggest this…,but how about a phone call with an animal communicator/psychic? I did that years ago as a last resort for help with a dog and it worked beautifully because the psychic was able to tell me exactly what the problems were. I had a call every few months when we had setbacks and after a year, I had a different dog. I am a very scientific person so I was reluctant to accept this idea, but I was desperate for any solution. Now, I will admit that the animal communicator is part of my animal healthcare team. She is generally able to pinpoint pain, right down to the tooth or vertebrae.
If the owner and/or you can’t figure this out, I would suggest either an arena with a fence, or bringing in a cowboy type person to plow through it. I would not SEND her to a cowboy, but having someone with a sticky seat and nerves of steel come out to ride her at the barn she’s at now.
This is one of the most dangerous and annoying habits to fix.
This mare sounds like she’s lacking in other ways too - just about any horse should be able to pony and her acting the way she does shows she might need a CTJ meeting to remind her she isn’t able to dictate every situation.
She wants what she wants, and she’s willing to do whatever it takes to get it.
@Weezer can you PM the contact info if the person you use? Mine has retired so I’m out of ideas there.
We have considered bringing in a cowboy type to ride her through it, but wanted to make sure there wasn’t something else we could do.
We’ve considered removing her from turnout buddies, but she gets attached to horses she isn’t even out with or near, and we didn’t think it would make a difference.
Personally, I think she’s at CTJ point as her owner is tempted to send her to a train for a few months and just get her sold. She’s tired of dealing with the mare at this point. Nothing about riding her is pleasant at this point and it is a drag out battle every single ride for her owner. (I’ve caught her mentally preparing herself in the tack room before mounting).
I sent you the info. I understand the frustration of being done with the horse. That’s the way I felt about the dog that was basically destroying my family. But when I suggested rehoming the dog, my husband reminded me that our primary responsibility was to ensure the well-being of the dog. Sending him out into the world as an emotional wreck would not have been fair to him.
OMG, I had an Appaloosa gelding about 20 years ago who could not stand fleece. It took me a while to figure it out because I only used a fleece pad at shows, and I thought it was the show environment that was the problem. He would simply lose his mind. I had to order a fitted quilted pad for my hunt saddle and a quilted under pad for my western saddle.
She’s not on any MSM is she? Some horses react very poorly to this ingredient (super spooky/reactive/difficult).
Another easy thing to try is regumate - I always thought this was a supplement for “nasty,” marish mares, so hesitated for years to try it on mine (who was as sweet as can be, but spooky and reactive, so not exactly like yours). Within 3 days of starting it, my mare was notably physically looser and more relaxed, in addition to being mentally more relaxed. It was a remarkable change.
Wait, why does the owner think she could send her mare off for a few months and get her sold? I thought the mare is impossible to ride and dangerous? Exactly who would buy her if truthful disclosure was given?
I was in a similar position with a gelding who was so spooky/terrified of everything that he was dangerous to me and himself. It took me over a year and finally finding a great trainer to work through his issues. I knew if we couldn’t get him past this, he was NOT going to be sold, he would be put down. No one would want him for free, let alone pawn him off to someone.
She may be different in a more tightly managed program with a stronger and more proficient rider. There is nothing wrong with moving a horse along if they are happier in a different program. Knowing this mare’s pedigree, a breeder may want her as a brood mare. Her current owner doesn’t want to breed.
Full disclosure as the why she’s broodmare only would obviously be given before the sale.
I really think this is just barn/buddy sour allowed to get out of control. Once they get away with it a few times, it’s REALLY hard to fix, and extremely dangerous.
If she manages to dump her rider and get back to the barn a few times, it’s in her head that she can do this if she escalates far enough.
She was able to scare her former trainer and they tried to “beat it out of her”.
IMO she needs someone who can calmly ride through her escalations until she learns she can’t get away with it. I’m too old for the nonsense so I haven’t sat on her, but I’ve watched it.
It’s not about beating it out of her. It’s several layers of gently pushing her comfort zone, sticking out her ill-behavior while not escalating it yourself, as well as making the barn not-so-pleasant should she manage to get back there.
I imagine this didn’t go 0-60 overnight. Mare tried something (maybe even imperceptible to her rider), got away with it, and then never looked back.
Again, this problem is exhausting and dangerous to fix. Even with gently pushing the envelope horses seem to take this issue to max determination level, and they don’t care about the rider at all when they’re throwing-down.
This is THE LAST horse who should be bred. Please don’t facilitate that as way out of dealing with her. In no way should her problems have even a small chance of being perpetuated. Full disclosure doesn’t matter, there’s always going be someone who’s dumb enough to take it on, because they’re uneducated about breeding.
I understand the temptation, because it would elevate guilt/difficult decision making. But it would be irresponsible.
A weird suggestion for the group to chew over: mare spins and won’t turn the opposite way out of it as I understand it. So keep her spinning in the same direction as she wants to go til she stops and then a couple more times. Just put her nose on the rider’s knee (not literally but almost) and keep her going with taps of the outside leg. A walk is fast enough. If she wants to trot that’s ok. When done, just walk on like nothing happened and do again when she spins again. Requires a rider who can handle dizziness!
I saw a wise old rider do this once with a horse many years ago. He was very quiet and calm about it. It was just “ok, you want to spin so let’s keep spinning”. Horse decided it wasn’t such a great idea after a couple of times and as I recall the evasion was tried again over the next day or so but only once. For that horse and that rider it was very effective
She would lose her marbles, but there were always other plausible “explanations” that made it hard to realize it was always just the little things setting her off.
For example: I had these fleece lined jumping boots I only every used for “special” situations like lessons, shows, etc. Every time I’d use them we’d have a dreadful ride, to the point I even joked it was the boots.
BUT, she never did anything that would make it clear it was the boots. Her reactions were different every time. She never rubbed her legs or tried to get the boots off or held her legs funny or balked when I put them on. Instead, we’d be riding and she’d turn into a bronc. Or maybe the next time she’s be a spooky mess. She might be bolting. You never knew what she would pull.
The only consistency me and various trainers would see was that it would happen while we schooling over fences, so we thought it was the jumping or the pressure of being in a lesson, being at a show, etc. But then I’d be schooling her at home in no boots or her neoprene brushing boots and have no issue. It was maddening. Plus it was compounded with the fact it wasn’t just the boots: it was her bit, it was different girths I owned, it was the new higher end saddle I bought, and so on. She was a mess.
Now I know all of those manic behaviors are evasions to physical discomfort not necessarily caused by lameness. It’s kind of ridiculous, especially since I grew up with the mindset of “horses should get over it.” But she doesn’t get over it. You can battle over things like fleece or bit types, or you can just swap it out and have a perfectly agreeable horse. I choose the latter.
With the added info, 100% barn sour and just not comfortable in her own skin.
I’ll still recommend the WS program, it worked wonders when I only had two horses at home and they were besties. It’s not a fast program, but 1000% works.
