Suggestions needed for an article: "Not Aged" Very Promising TB Sires of Eventers

[tom]

I have been commissioned to write an article and I need suggestions from eventing breeders and riders:

Please tell me the names and details of what you consider to be the most promising thoroughbred stallions in eventing breeding. The stallions must be “not aged”, which I define as:
– alive
– fertile
– 15 or 16 years of age or under.

Please send me your suggestions via this thread, by private message, or by email (tom@morningside-stud.com).

I am interested in TB stallions from all the major eventer breeding countries and continents (e.g., Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand).

Thank you!

Tom

[SanDiegoPinto]

Sea Accounts (still competing himself, IIRC).

[pcwertb]

Do they need to have progeny that are successful already? Stallions of that age may not have many that have yet to prove themselves in sport.

A Fine Romance has a stallion son, but he is very young (3) and I am assuming not bred any yet. Bloodlines alone indicate he could be a very good sire of eventing offspring.

[Manahmanah]

Since eventers typically do not see big successes until 12yo++ the time to event plus gestation time would mean with your age limiting factor you’d be mostly limited to looking at horses only from his first and second year foal crops… this really isn’t enough time to get a good idea what a stallion truly throws.

[tom]

I am most interested in:
(1) TB stallions in sport
or
(2) TB stallions not in sport but have started to produce some promising youngsters in sport.

[EventerAJ]

Well, I found one but he failed your first criteria. A G2 race stallion, Sightseeing (Pulpit - Resort, by Pleasant Colony) was my choice match to breed my TB event mare. I have a nice 2 y/o colt to show for it (pic). Unfortunately Sightseeing died during colic surgery fall 2012 at only 8 years old. He left 4 foal crops. I’ve seen dozens of them, they are consistently sporty in type with uphill builds, leggy, good minds, and athleticism. The oldest crop is now 5, the youngest turning 2. I bought a filly off the track from his first crop and she proves to have excellent jumping technique, good movement, natural balance and a fantastic brain. (link) I wish I had a barnful like her. I’m currently on the hunt to get another one…I’ve called trainers from Gulfstream to Delta Downs trying to pick off the slow-running 5K claimers by Sightseeing. I have many of them in my virtual stable and I track them closely. You could call me a stalker, I suppose.

I’m also on the lookout for the next favorite TB sire since Sightseeing’s untimely death. I’ve studied a lot of AP Indy sire lines, as I am a huge fan of his. Dances With Ravens, Rock Slide, and Malibu Moon are AP Indy sons who have produced nice sport horses. AP Indy grandsons are also on my radar (particularly those by Pulpit, like Sightseeing). I like Sky Mesa, Purge, and Tapit (though $$$!). The A.P. Indy over Fappiano cross is quite athletic and potent, as shown by Bernardini and Tapit. Tiznows are also extremely classy horses. Sadly, it will be hard to get a good sample size of those in sport…just too successful and expensive on the track.

I go to every TB sale I can to “research” new sires, I have a massive spreadsheet of hip numbers, breeding, pics, and my comments. I try to keep up with the nice sporty yearlings as they hit the track, and hope the good ones will someday end up in my price range.

[vineyridge]

Sula Blue in England is worth considering. He’s pure TB, eventing now, and even without offspring of an age to event, has a lovely pedigree. He’s 13.
Stormhill Miller is 19, so aged. Primitive Proposal is 15. Denounce is 14. Urgent Request is 14. Loughehoe Guy in Ireland is aged. Chinook Star in Ireland is aged. Colourfield is aged to dead. Roviris is aged to dead.

Up With The Lark is 63/64ths TB. He’s 15. Primitive Star, also 15, is about 75% TB.

There is a 1998 model named Nayef who was bred in the USA and stands for sport in Germany.

Here there is Sea Lion (Sea Elephant). He’s 17. Trak approved and a proven 3* event horse. I honestly can’t remember if he finished Rolex, but I do know he started.

Orujo de la Galerna is full TB, is 15, and is owned by a Mexican fellow. Stallion did stand at Phyllis Dawson’s Windchase, but I’m not sure where he is now. He has evented himself.

Sea Accounts is 16.

I’ve just gone over most of the 2014 British Young Horse Championships from 4-6 (haven’t done 7). The only TB sires that I’ve found have been really old. The vast majority of sires in all ages have been WBs or Irish or WBs standing in Ireland. Since the youngest were bred in 2010, or only 5 years after the destruction of eventing as we knew it, it would well be that British and Irish breeders were following the prevalent expectation that the TB was dead in event breeding. But the results to date have not shown that–at least in the sport’s highest levels.

I’ve now done the 7 yos. Almost no tb sires of any age, and the ones there are the aged and dead. The vast majority of the horses are Irish, and it appears that the Irish no longer want TB blood in either the sires or the dams. They look as though they were breeding primarily for SJ these days, and the horses they sell for eventing are the ones who haven’t showed the talent to make over the big sticks.

If the sport needs TBs close for the top levels today, will the top levels change because the vast majority of horses bred today in places like Britain and Ireland are not using TB blood? Courses for horses, you know. Or will breeders start looking back to TB sires? The German eventers seem to be of the opinion that top eventers come from high percentage Blood and are buying young horses from TB sires. But the TB sires of the German horses are none of them young.

I daresay William Micklem will know if there are any promising young TB stallions for eventing in either Ireland or the UK.

[secretariat]

Malibu Moon. Great sire line (have you ever seen an AP Indy who couldn’t jump?) And the best mares in the business.

We also love our Pulpit babies - they’re talented, but their biggest asset is they’re just WONDERFUL horses.

[Elles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzG4n9kncU
Nice!

[vineyridge]

Pulpit is 1994 model; Malibu Moon is a 1997 model. Both stood at fees most sport breeders wouldn’t pay.

[Linny]

Is the article intended to recommend TB’s to breeders or to advise potential buyers about sires to look for?

Many desirable sires are (as mentioned above) outside the realm for a sport breeder and standing for racing purposes. If they are bred for a TB that will be registered, the stallion manager will not want to “waste” a cover on a mare that will not produce a racehorse, even if the mare owner is willing to spend the money.

if I were advising someone as to what stallions to look for, Dance With Ravens, Macho Uno, Jump Start and Freud come to mind.

[EventerAJ]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8044235]
Pulpit is 1994 model; Malibu Moon is a 1997 model. Both stood at fees most sport breeders wouldn’t pay.[/QUOTE]

Well, yes. And Pulpit also died in 2012. But sons of Pulpit may be accessible for sport breeding; mares by those stallions may also be available and would be useful for event breeding. There’s actually a Pulpit son out there, Baatesh (bred by Highclere, bought/raced by Shadwell), who went through Stallion Testing.

States outside of KY (like Florida, for instance) may have TB sires more within reach of sport horse budgets. The AP Indy sireline is represented in Florida by sires such as A.P. Warrior, Cool Coal Man, First Dude, Indy Wind, St. Anddan, Telling, and United States. All far cheaper than typical KY stud fees; and many of their offspring fall within a sport horse price as well, making it possible to try some of their fillies for sport and later breeding.

My hope is to study LOTS of sales horses and try to find a TB stallion who consistently throws a sport horse type, who isn’t so commercially successful as to be priced out of reach (Tapit, Bernardini, Tiznow, Med D’oro, etc). They’re out there, it just takes a lot of time, effort and patience to identify. In general, I find more stallions to avoid than to pursue, but I’m a pretty harsh critic.

And Linny, thanks for mentioning Jump Start. Don’t know how I forgot about him…definitely on my list!

[Elles]

There might be one or two in this list, I do not know a lot about their offspring though: http://www.rimondo.com/horse-list/132/Englische-Vollblut-Hengste-2015

[Elles]

Or maybe in this listing: http://www.harasdesconcessions.be/etalons.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rND6ZOyHFFs

[Fred]

[QUOTE=pcwertb;8043394]

A Fine Romance has a stallion son, but he is very young (3) and I am assuming not bred any yet. Bloodlines alone indicate he could be a very good sire of eventing offspring.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Beth for mentioning A Fine Romance and his young son.
AFR is now retired.
But I am very grateful to Tom for including him in one of his previous articles.
That was a huge honour.

Right now there are three colt sons, one full TB (with no ND or MrP blood).
One is 3/4 TB, 1/4 Hanoverian (with the damline TB being rare in this hemisphere NZ, Ire and Fr) the other is out of a mare by Capone.
The oldest is only rising 3, and others are rising 2, so none have been bred.

[omare]

So is racing considered sport? Just wondering as it seemed like minimum race winnings/ racing quality is (or use to be) a criteria for the stud books.

[Highflyer]

Not quite TB-- but what about the Gem Twist clones?

[tom]

Thanks to everyone for suggestions.
Highflyer: I don’t do clones.
Omare: racing is a sport but I am focused here exclusively on the sport of eventing.
Linny: I am highlighting stallions available to eventing breeders.

[Elles]

I would think Ireland has loads of promising TB stallions.

[Elles]

http://www.endhousestud.co.uk/stallions/SirensMissile/index.htm
http://www.louellastud.co.uk/stallions
http://www.horsedeals.com.au/index.php?p=horses-for-sale&breed=42-Thoroughbred