Surface for "dry lot" in PNW

[PonyRiderMom]

After seeing what some of my neighbors’ horses are standing around in right now, I have decided that I don’t want to just leave my horses “dry lot” as is and hope for the best. You can’t really call it a dry lot when it’s mostly mud, y’know?

I was planning on 3/8 inch pea gravel. I was going to scrape the ground and dump about eight inches of gravel on top. I don’t want to put fabric underneath because I haven’t had good experiences with it and horses. I don’t want to put the grid underneath either. I’m putting grid in their shelter and around the watering area, but honestly I’m not too fond of the grid either.

After reading through some threads here, I see a lot of people don’t like the gravel, and some of those people are actually speaking from personal experience.

So, what is the best surface for a dry lot in the PNW? Where we are isn’t floodingly wet all the time, it’s just gray and damp and drippy for much of the winter. But definitely looking around, there are a lot of horses standing in a lot of mud and I don’t want that to be my horses.

So what would be an ideal surface?

(ETA: I was thinking of making one separate area sand so they’d had a nice place to lie down. I am also planning on setting up half of the barn as a run-in shelter, with a roof extension over that, so they will have a totally dry place to come in if they want)

[omare]

Look forward to the replies as we have had record rain in the mid-Atlantic with winter now 80 percent mud season. I just bought some horse panels for moveable turn-out to save paddocks. I was wondering whether I could put permanent stone down as a base in a dedicated area and than sand on top-but I am not so sure with all the weather they still would not go through to the stone. (Horses are getting more limited turnout because mud.)

[NancyM]

We used to be in your situation, in your area. Tried everything. Ended up selling the farm to a billionaire idiot to sink money into, and moved into a semi arid area with water rights. Now, the water comes out of the ground instead of out of the sky. Horses live outdoors year round. No rainscald, no thrush, no soft waterlogged feet because (other than a few days of spring breakup)… no mud. Winters are cold and dry, some snow that squeaks under foot, conditions that horses thrive in. Hint… get into the rainshadow behind the Coastal mountains. Land is cheaper (even now) , there is no crime or homeless or drug problems, and few humans around. Just grass, trees, wildlife, and peace and quiet. No stalls to muck. No sawdust to buy. No manure needing to be trucked away by an expensive company. No need to hire stall muckers to spell off from the endless work to try to make “keeping horses” in wet and humid conditions even remotely successful.

When the humidity levels are at 100% for much of the year, and it rains for weeks on end… the problem for horses with mud is unsolvable. Because it’s not ONLY the mud, it’s the humidity. Locking them into stalls will getcha impaction colic, and contracted feet, and stress issues, because horses aren’t supposed to live like that. Only it isn’t unsolvable if you make the move to what is known as “horse country”… that is, country with an environment where horses thrive.

We got tired of beating our head against the wall, and flushing money down the toilet.

[awaywego]

@omare

Look forward to the replies as we have had record rain in the mid-Atlantic with winter now 80 percent mud season. I just bought some horse panels for moveable turn-out to save paddocks. I was wondering whether I could put permanent stone down as a base in a dedicated area and than sand on top-but I am not so sure with all the weather they still would not go through to the stone. (Horses are getting more limited turnout because mud.)

Same. I just heard yesterday January was the 3rd wettest on record for our area. I’ve been thinking quite a bit lately about how the Mid-Atlantic farms really need to step up with dry lots like the PNW has done, because no one wants to turn out in mud and our winters are just so wet now. I know it is a big investment, but unless barns want to keep the horses in for weeks at a time, it is increasingly necessary.

[enjoytheride]

I would use something involving limestone and dust because the dust will solidify and hold the stone like concrete, but with drainage. Locally it’s called 53 stone. Then put Ag Lime or Dusty 12 on top.

Pea gravel will roll.

[PaddockWood]

I was gonna start a Dry Lot 101 thread so let this be it. I’m in Ohio so not your weather exactly BUT when we built 4 years ago we planned for climate change - ie downpours, recordbreaking amounts. I mean, as much as you can plan. Who knows what’s coming with extreme weather…

I’ve got a nice dry lot - no mud.

I can find some old threads later and post - there were people posting who made park trails - so legit and serious. What we did was remove topsoil down to clay, lay geotile fabric (and a certain kind - nonwoven was it? 4oz? ), then 3 inches or small/medium rock, then 3 inches of limestone screenings and rolled it with a 10 ton roller. It’s held up beautifully through intense weather and rain over the past 4 years. And I keep it clean to prevent the breakdown that happens to it from organic material.

I have nearly annually had a slinger truck sling more limestone screenings - one load each year and freshened it up and keep a depth to it. Our heavy downpours have meant some of it has washed away a wee bit into my turnouts.

I also plan to build a “dry lot” around my property -a track if you will. Where we have boggier soil might have to put in a culvert - not there yet. Just in vision planning at this stage.

It is expensive to do it right and have it last as someone said above who gave up and left the area.

Do you have some funds to spend?

[PonyRiderMom]

@PaddockWood

Thank you, this is great.

So you’ve had you set up for four years, with the geotextile fabric, and the geotextile fabric hasn’t started coming up, poking through, or getting pawed up?

[PonyRiderMom]

@enjoytheride

I would use something involving limestone and dust because the dust will solidify and hold the stone like concrete, but with drainage. Locally it’s called 53 stone. Then put Ag Lime or Dusty 12 on top.

Pea gravel will roll.

But wouldn’t that end up being a really hard surface that wouldn’t be very nice for them to stand on?

[enjoytheride]

I’ve never seen it done any other way so I think it’s fine. The Ag lime on top will get soft when it gets wet.

Pea gravel doesn’t have any stability to form a stable surface. It will roll underfoot and will work into the ground.

[PaddockWood]

@PonyRiderMom

So you’ve had you set up for four years, with the geotextile fabric, and the geotextile fabric hasn’t started coming up, poking through, or getting pawed up?

No, not at all. But it is/was buried under 6 inches of aggregate. I do see after these years that I need a fresh layer and get another roller. I do see the value of ongoing maintence to keep the pad in great shape.

I’ll dig up the old threads tonight when I’m home. I’ve got a dry lot file oh yes I do.

[TheJenners]

And is exhausting to try to walk on.

[Cowboy_Girl]

Scrape off and stock pile topsoil
Grade dry lot area to drain - 2% side slope
put directional ditch/and or berm at top and bottom of dry lot and - can be wide and shallow. Cover with salvaged top soil. Let gravity be your friend and keep outside water from getting into your dry area, and when it does, let it flow out.
Place 4 inches of 2 inch rock. Its large and angled and will lock together, and not sink. Top with 4 inches of 3/4 gravel. It will filter down into the crevasses and holes of the bigger rock and smooth the top surface.
Water will permeate through the layers of gravel and rock, hit the sloped grade below and drain away.

[PaddockWood]

From my big fat file Dry Lot:
First, the power of the COTH hive:

Best footing for stall runs and sacrifice area (in a rainy locale)

I’m in a self board riding club in the PNW. We are close to a big but built on solid ground. It’s an interesting Petrie dish because every stallholder does their own paddocks. From ten years observations, the primary thing is your drainage system. French drains down deep that lead somewhere plus rock and gravel and geotextile. On top of that, honestly I find hog fuel will drain faster than most grades of sand. In fact we have two riding rings actually built up in the bog area, the one with exce…

All-weather paddocks

The barn I currently manage has decided to add dry lot paddocks to contend with the mud problems that have been around for (what I’ve heard) the last 12 years. It’s a 14 stall barn on 17 acres in the mountains :nonchalance:. We’ve received over a 100’’ of rain this year and we are DROWNING. Needless to say, I’m thrilled to be making the improvements. I’ve done a lot of research on the construction: graded down, install the geotextile, add 6" of gravel to drain, top with 3-4" of screenings for th…

All-weather sacrifice paddock footing

So I have two blue stone / stone dust sacrifice paddocks that I love. But cleaning them can be a bit challenging. I loose more blue stone than I’d like in cleaning them and I find it can be harsh on their feet (both abrasive and hard). I have thought about adding some sand to the top of of one of the paddocks - may be an inch… My hope was that it would help with cleaning - ie might be easier to pick / sift through, and it would be a bit softer (although I know it’s still abrasive in it’s own …

Sacrifice Area Footing Recommendations/Tender Footed Horse

What type of footing would you recommend for a sacrifice area that will be used by 3 Thoroughbreds, one of which is VERY tender footed? We are located in Minnesota, so the footing will see 4 seasons: lots of winter snow, wet springs, dry summers and (at least this year) wet falls. The sacrifice area will be used for overnights in the summer, and full time in the winter. Would love to hear suggestions/comments from anyone on what has worked well for their tender footed horses. Thanks!

Some other goodies:

AEN115.pdf

https://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/geotextile-fabric-great-for-heavy-use/33379.html

EC1558.pdf

https://www.fs.usda.gov/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm07232816/page11.htm

And here’s a note I made from someone who said they made park trails. Their advice:
The way around spending money on gravel each year is to put down filter fabric first. Grade the area to create drainage, put down the fabric, put down drain rock, and apply a top layer either limestone fines or gravel depending on use. We built roads, parking areas, round pens, and paddocks this way and never once had to add additional gravel. The oldest areas are about 15 yrs old now.

[PaddockWood]

One more!

Which Paddock Surface is Best for a Rainy Climate?

[PaddockWood]

@PonyRiderMom

But wouldn’t that end up being a really hard surface that wouldn’t be very nice for them to stand on?

If it drys out for a period of time it gets hard but not like concrete. During periods of wet it gets softer, almost too soft.

[kaya842]

Agree here - it gets no harder than a packed dirt road IME.

Pea gravel is a real B to get a wheelbarrow through or even to walk on (and you’ll need to do both to pick poo up to keep it from turning into mud). The previous owners of our place had the barn floor as pea gravel, probably because the floor is so uneven, and the first thing we did was tear it all out and it was miserable.

[Obsidian_Fire]

I’m in the PNW also. One of the barns I boarded at had pea gravel paddocks - and they worked. They leveled the ground. They put down fabric - you need to get ‘road fabric’, or heavy duty nursery fabric, which you can source at OBC NW. They have it in giant rolls, not that little 3’ stuff that rips when you look at it… lol. Anyway, level the surface, put the fabric down, and put about 8" of pea gravel on it. It worked. It had been in place for years with little upkeep other than picking poo. Other areas of the farm had ‘pads’ where they put down the fabric, put down railroad ties, and filled with 1/4" minus or scalpings. It packed and drained and stayed mud-free.
The #1 problem I see with people trying to make ‘mud free’ in the PNW is they don’t address the drainage, the #2 problem is they don’t put down enough topping.

[PaddockWood]

What I’d add about keeping a dry lot free of organic material is surface really matters. The limestone topping is easy to rake and use a pitchfork. My horses gift me with doing all manure out on the drylot
versus their open stalls.

After our winter deepfreeze then buckets of rain I had lots of debris - hay etc and bit rake cleaned
it up fast and then saw the drylot tighten right back up. Pretty interesting.

[alfonsina]

Limestone… Is there a particular reason why limestone is specified in a lot of these comments? It’s not that available near me. And isn’t it on the soft or dissolvable side? What qualities does it have that makes it specified? Are there reasonable substitutes?

[luvmyhackney]

In my area limestone is crazy cheap and packs down hard yet drains really well.

It’s 1/2 the price of crushed bluestone.