Surprise foal help

[Hampton_Bay]

So I was driving home from work today, and as I passed the big pasture I had to stop my car to go “why does it look like my horse has a foal?!?!”

Long story short, the abortion shot failed and I guess my memory of when the neighbors loose stallions jumped the fence was off by 2 months. Thankfully mom and filly are healthy despite an unattended birth. Mare never bagged up and was displaying heat the whole year.

Anyway, dad is one of 4 grade pinto gained things who are at least decently put together and aren’t too mean or bad-natured. Foal is currently gaining and has a very lateral walk. At what point will I know if she’s gaited? Mom is an Azteca, so no gaited horses in her bloodlines. Anything I should look out for in mom or baby for the next few days? Mom is UTD on shots and worming, gate her a tube of ivermectin today (exactly 4 months after quest plus). No vet within 2 hours who can run an IgG unfortunately. No signs of a placenta.

I’m just hoping the stud with the dam with DSLD isn’t the dad.

[siegi_b]

You don’t sound overly excited or worried about the new addition to your herd… Having a foal means feeding your mare more to accommodate her milk production, it means treating the foal’s navel for a few days in order to avoid infection, keeping the very young foal out of bad weather and protected, and many other things that pretty much all fall under the category of “caring for mom and foal”.

I suggest you educate yourself quickly on what is required to reasonably take care of your mare and foal, especially since you don’t seem to be too concerned about not having a vet available for “foal issues”.

And yes, even the “unexpected” foals require a certain level of medical and other care, so do me a favor and quit being so casual about it!

[Hampton_Bay]

Actually I bred this mare and raised her. I am aware the mare needs extra feed. She has 20 acres of grass and maintains weight easily. Not sure how to fix the lack of a vet aside from moving to a different area. Would you suggest I hire one full time?

If I didn’t care about the foals welfare, why would I be asking what to look out for over the next few days? My mare is 6, I’ve long since packed away the fooling books. I’m asking for education, not a rude reply about my lack of responsibility for all things living. I did my best to avoid this situation, but now that the munchkin is here, a few tips would be nice. I don’t have hours to read stuff on various websites with a 1yo baby, a farm, and working 50 hours a week.

[TheTwinTiersHorse]

Apparently, the first thing to do is become overly excited and worried.
That will help immensely.

[NoDQhere]

Many foals are born in a pasture every year and the majority of them do just fine. In fact foaling in a grassy pasture is the chosen place for many breeders. We have had a few pasture births over the years and all have been fine.

Placentas can be very hard to find in a pasture, but keep a very close eye on your mare, just in case. But the chances of a retained placenta being completely inside the mare isn’t too likely. Of course there is the chance of just a part of it in there, along with all the “possibilities” that can go wrong with ANY foaling, but the odds are in your favor that all is well.

If your filly is growing and Mom is maintaining her condition well, they are most likely just fine. As far as knowing if the foal is gaited, I haven’t a clue

[Hampton_Bay]

Retained placenta was one worry I had. What are the symptoms? Filly is nursing fine. Lays down a lot but I seem to remember her dam napping a lot as a newborn. She did seem to be straining a bit when I found her so we did give her an enema. She appears to have pooped pretty well and doesn’t appear to be straining any more. She’s relatively friendly for a newbie.

Would DNA be the only way to identify dad? DH remembers which 2 of the 4 had gotten into their pasture. Unfortunately both are pinto, one black and one chestnut. Mare is bright bay. Filly is a bit darker bay pinto. So color seems to be of no help. The chestnut pinto we know is out of the mare with Suspected DSLD. DH isn’t sure about the black pinto’s dam. Not sure if it would help me to know who her dad is. The possibility of DSLD does worry me though.

Of course she had to be born the week it’s supposed to start getting into the upper 90s.

[Griffyn]

Well, in that case- congrats, Grandma! So about the gaitedness of your foal, the lateralness of the walk is a clue, but lots of young foals kinda shuffle about. Theres no real way to tell…my mare who is gaited and whose supposed to be, trots when loose in pasture. Some hardly trot at all and as your foal matures you will see which way it goes. Under saddle you can encourage gait- if it has the genetics for gaitedness shouldnt be too hard to encourage. If your foal doesnt have a “hard” trot thats probably your biggest clue. If you dont want a gaited foal, and it trots some, at that point you only ask for that. Time will tell.

[JoZ]

How remote is your pasture? On the farm where I keep my horses, my landlord and another boarder adopt a more natural approach to animal reproduction. I know when a mare or cow has given birth by the vultures and eagles fighting over the placenta.

If I had limited time or access with a newborn, I would treat the navel and do a more in-depth search for the placenta. Look for flattened grass. That’s often a giveaway.

If I were you, I wouldn’t worry about the parentage at this point. I would just read up on early signs of DSLD. And I would post pictures! Of course I’m partial to pintos, even unexpected ones.

[siegi_b]

I’m curious as to who gave the “abortion” shot and what it actually was… I assumed that it required a vet but I understand that sometimes you shouldn’t assume anything. Also, wouldn’t you check at some point to see if the “abortion” shot worked?

Pardon my stupid questions… I’ve only been breeding horses for 30 years and haven’t come across some of the things you mention so casually…

And yes, I know that you can raise horses like you describe…, it just makes me wonder why you even bother with it when you don’t have the time nor a vet in the area.

[ShotenStar]

There are several companies that can do parentage testing for you, using hair samples from the mare, foal, and the two candidate stallions. I have used Animal Genetics in the past and been please with their service. The only potential glitch you might run into is if the two stallions are closely related.

Congrats on your “surprise” and hoping she grows well and lives long.

star

[JB]

Since you can’t do anything about the IgG, then just watch very, very carefully for several weeks to make sure he’s bright, nursing, gaining weight, being appropriately active, etc.

When did the mare get her Spring shots? If back in March or so, he might be a candidate for foal vaccinations earlier than the 5-6 months of “properly” vaccinated mares (ie about 30 days before foaling). But if it’s in the last 2 months or so that should be fine.

[Hampton_Bay]

JB, my mare was vaccinated in March/April (split the shots by a few weeks, EWT/WNV and rabies since they rarely come in contact with other horses). When should I vaccinate the filly? When this mare was a filly I vaccinated for strangles as well, but I was boarding at a facility that had one horse with strangles symptoms. Is it worthwhile to do strangles on such a closed farm for this filly? Anything other than EWT/WNV and rabies I should do?

She is still bright and active, a tad shy, but otherwise interested and seems healthy. I have a picture of her, but I can’t post it here from my phone. She’s a cute little thing, but still not named. I didn’t exactly have a chance to think of a name since I wasn’t expecting her arrival, and nothing seems to fit her yet.

Unfortunately both potential dads share a sire and possibly a dam. I’m not sure who the dam of the b&w pinto is.

Siegi, if you truly have 30 years of breeding experience, I’m sure you’ve at some point run across a situation where a mare was bred accidentally and was thus aborted immediately after conception. Your posts strike of little more than an attempt to judge me for for some kind of neglect you’re assuming I am committing so that you can flaunt your perceived superiority. This board is supposed to be about horse people coming together to help others, not try to tear others down because they don’t match your criteria of someone who is worthy to own horses.

[JB]

maybe others have a different opinion, but to me, end of March is pushing it for having antibodies high enough to offer the best protection for the foal. Maybe it’s still ok. I know it takes a couple of weeks for things to reach their peak, which is why you want to do it about 30 days before foaling. She was about midway to needing the next set of boosters for the enceph vaccines, assuming you guys boost in late Summer/early Fall given your location. So…shrug I think if it were me I’d start looking at foal vacs about 4 months instead of 5 - all the ones listed.

Strangles? No. Not remotely worth the risk. It’s also very risky to vaccinate a horse who might have just been exposed

Flu/rhino - yes, and probably for a couple of years until some immunity due to exposure can be built.

[cyriz_s_mom]

Regarding the placenta issue, I would take the mare’s temp once or twice a day. If she starts to spike a temp, then she needs to get on antibiotics asap and should be lavaged/infused with antibiotics to get any piece(s) of the placenta out.

If you have any oxytocin, that might help her expel anything she’s retaining as well.

Wouldn’t hurt to take the foal’s temp when you take mare’s. when they crash, they tend to do so quickly.

Where in NW LA are you?

[Zuri]

If you have a vet, can you call them? Or get in touch with a vet clinic? It sounds as though you are a knowledgeable horse person, but sometimes it is wiser to err on the side of caution and consult someone with a higher knowledge base. Is it possible to trailer them to a vet?

[siegi_b]

Hampton Bay - I have no interest in belittling other breeders/horse owners. However, it was difficult for me to make sense of some of your seemingly contradictory statements…

You state that you don’t have access to a vet, yet your mare received some type of injection to make her abort her pregnancy. I don’t have a problem with your actions but did question how/where/who provided the injection, a question you still haven’t answered. I’ve since researched the subject and found that both Lutalyse and Prostaglandin shots are used in terminating early pregnancies - both require a prescription which to me means having a vet come out to administer them.

So, if you had a vet come out to administer those shots then why wouldn’t you have that person come back to check on your foal instead of trying to get a diagnosis and treatment suggestions via a public forum?

If questioning makes me a bad person then so be it…

[csaper58]

There is a Facebook page for DSLD-ESPA , they give info. and support. I think there is a new name for the disease.

there is also a new thread on it in Horse Care forum. Good Luck with your baby

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=siegi b.;7658523]
Hampton Bay - I have no interest in belittling other breeders/horse owners. [/QUOTE]

Could have fooled me!! You couldn’t have been more rude or condescending on this thread. :no:

@siegi b.;7658523

I’ve since researched the subject and found that both Lutalyse and Prostaglandin shots are used in terminating early pregnancies.

They are both the same thing. Lutalyse is just a trade name for Prostaglandin. Estrumate is another Prostaglandin trade name.

Hampton, congrats on your new foal, though I realize the circumstances were not ideal! Just ignore siegi! She is a big reason why many people don’t even bother coming to the COTH BB any more. I think everyone has already offered you some great advice on here. And for what it’s worth, we stand three stallions, breed full time and our closest veterinary hospital is 2 hours away. We are in the middle of pretty much nowhere, and gasp, we foal out ourselves, foals live outside 24/7…and another gasp, administer Prostaglandin ourselves.

[rodawn]

^ ^ LOL

OP, congrats on your surprise. Maybe that’s what you should name her?

Lots of good advice on here. Most mares don’t have retained placental problems, but the ones that do start getting sick within a couple days. Taking the temperature a couple times a day is very helpful as an early warning sign. If she spikes a fever, you need to jump all over that - it’s an emergency.

I am another one that does not vaccinate for strangles. But, I do vaccinate youngsters for influenza, WEE/EEE, tetanus, WNV, EHV1/4 - essentially the 5-way plus WNV. Both require followup boosters in youngsters. As for exact timing of when to do that, I’m sure a quick phone call to any equine clinic would best be able to advise you based on what they are seeing (infection status/rates) in your particular area. And if you do make the phone call, do ask them if vaccinating for strangles is particularly recommended for your area. I think what scares people about the strangles disease is when the odd case does go bastard it’s usually pretty nasty business, but most strangles cases are pretty straight forward and thus not worth any potential side effects from the vaccines. Whereas, the other 6 things I mentioned above… the vaccines truly have far fewer risks than the disease processes themselves which can all be deadly.

Also deworming momma was super. Baby and momma both need another deworming when baby is 6 weeks of age (I use ivermectin in baby for this first, tender-aged deworming). Then baby needs another deworming 6 weeks after that (there are other foal-safe brands you could use for this one to provide good rotational coverage). The year-round deworming protocol in your area might be a bit different than it is up where I live, so I’ll leave it at that.

Have fun with your new baby.

[Diamontaire]

No pics of baby Surprise yet…unacceptable!