Tacky or normal? Trainer's spouse showing against our middle schoolers

I am confused how saying that people will not win for political reasons helps the trainer’s point.

If riding with that trainer means you will never win, because of politics (ignoring the lack of riding skill or quality horse, let’s just go with the politics point), why continue in the no win situation? I would think this excuse would make people leave said politically behind trainer and find one that is part of the crowd that gives them a chance at a ribbon.

I am thankful my trainer(s) never used that type of explanation. I always rode with someone who told me how my round was based on my riding and my horse. If we got ribbons, great. If we did not get ribbons…oh well.

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Oh, the “it’s all political” line goes along with a couple other lines. “We are actually better than them for (reason of your choice)” and “they are corrupt meanies who cheat.”

It becomes a wraparound cocoon of grievance and isolation designed to keep clients from jumping ship.

Of course there is just a fraction of enough plausibility in it. Horses do get drugged or prepped. Riders do buy high dollar horses and have trainers tune them up. Riders can buy saddles that maximize their riding position. It’s easy to get priced out of competition in horses. But recognizing that you need to work harder and smarter on a budget is just reality and a good life lesson. You can do that with a positive attitude and good sportsmanship. It’s very different from resentment and making excuses.

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Not only do I count, but I count in the hunt field. (One of my fellow field members once snarked at me for it and a master replied “And yet she is not the one whiffing coops, X”.) I don’t usually do it aloud, but occasionally it happens…most likely in the form of a loud TWO when I am super-thrilled that it worked out and we’re not going to die. :slight_smile:

I also once showed my baby over cavalettis WT. It was me and a 7-year-old on an ancient Welsh Pony. Wanna guess who came in second?

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Nothing better than losing to small kids! I think I actually like it better than losing to adults. I definitely like losing to kids more than beating them. Especially small kids. I only show small local things usually though.

As for counting, I have a hard time counting 1 - 2 at the canter. I’m a dressage rider trying to learn more about jumping and 1/2 at the canter just seems wrong to me lol. I haven’t mastered the “light seat” or kind of posting cantering thing either. Actually, I haven’t mastered any of this jumping stuff other than using the corners and eyes up lol. The lesson kids only tolerate me cause I got a cute horse :rofl:

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I’ll preface this with the caveat that I’m a professional musician & over think all things rhythm. :exploding_head:

I count the canter in one, as you would conduct a fast waltz. Yeah, yeah, I know the canter is a 3 beat gait. I’m not convinced those 3 beats are even, though. ( And a very slow or very fast canter is really 4 beats & not 3, according to dressage trainers I’ve asked. ) One of my favorite Schubert songs, Die Erlkonig, features a diabolical triplet pattern in the bass that is supposed to suggest a horse cantering/galloping. Amazing composition, but it sounds absolutely nothing like a horse. Otoh, the William Tell overture, which does manage to sound like a horse, utilizes an uneven rhythm & rests. As neither composition is in 3/4, I believe it is Rossini’s use of an uneven rhythm that enabled him to capture a realistic horse sound.

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I think any kind of counting or singing even is good. Prevents one from holding their breath. Sadly, I’m usually puffing pretty hard so in no danger of holding my breath. If I’m not too puffy I will sing. Row row row your boat or jingle bells.

I’m not musically educated (at all) but I do agree that an evenly counted 123 isn’t perfect for the canter either

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My favorite trick is counting out of the corner. The number doesn’t matter, just the counting. Count to 15, if that’s what it takes… but it helps you keep a rythym.

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Just curious – are you an instrumentalist or a singer? Or some other role in the music industry…?

Primarily a singer & collaborative pianist (aka, an accompanist). I mostly teach now, though. And the occasional commercial contemporary jam session. It has been ages since I tried out for anything classical.

Thank you!

Around here, particularly in B and under shows, adults who want to support the show with their money would show HC “Hors Concours” – meaning, not competing for the prize. In those classes, the adult might well be better, but the ribbon would go to the best kid riding for the prize. Everybody wins.

That works great if you’re putting mileage on your personal horse. It’s less helpful if you have a sales horse that you want to put a record on.

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Does it not show up on the USEF record at all if you enter Hors Concours? I’d assumed it would show as DNP.

Right. But that should be a caveat to everyone looking for a horse, and checking out it’s show record, since the record doesn’t accurately say, “Won 1st place against 2 9 year old kids…”

Oh, I agree. Personally, I assign little weight to the show record under a pro. I think I mentioned this upthread: my philosophy on horse shopping is not just “is it currently doing what I need it to be doing?” It is “is it doing what I need it to do with a pilot roughly the same paygrade as me on board?” I get the impression my opinion is an outlier, though.

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In my experience, going Hors Concours involves flipping your number over and going unjudged. I’ve had several go this way. Those classes didn’t appear on their USEF reports.

I agree completely. I’m also not a pro. When I go Hors Concours with a horse I may sell later, I do it for mileage or because I’m not sure it will be a great trip and I don’t want that on the horse’s record. Or because I need the mileage in the ring since I’m an ammy with another job and an eye for distances that comes and goes. :wink:

FWIW, I agree completely with your philosophy. So do many people. I think that’s why the show record is so important for many buyers. They want to be sure the horse can get around with a kid or an ammy. The record alone doesn’t tell you how skilled that kid or ammy is, though. Are they mini-pros who could hold their own in the open divisions? Or do they have a day job and a family and ride when they can?

The complication with that in the smallest shows is that if anyone (including the kids) wants points, you need a minimum number of competitors. So if all the adults go HC in a combined Child/Adult class there could not be enough to meet those requirements.

Or what do you do in the divisions are combined because there aren’t enough children to fill (say 3 adults, 1 child). It would seem strange to expect the adults to drop out or show HC in that case just because the children’s division didn’t fill.

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It happens frequently at the H/J shows locally. Most of them just combine classes & pin separately. Though, as I mentioned somewhere up thread, if it were me, I’d send him to shows I wasn’t taking clients to, even if it meant he had to drive further. And here’s why:

On COTH, most posters are well-educated in the rules governing H/J & can say, “No, that isn’t sketchy. They’re actually doing it because of a difficulty arising from rule xyz.” The parents & low level AA clients paying the bills for most trainers aren’t so familiar with the rules. Children & adults competing in the same class just doesn’t happen in most sports. (In my sport, a 16yo could theoretically enter lower level adult classes. Virtually never happens though, as 9 out of 10 the teen would get their a$$ kicked. They just stay in juniors until they age out at 18.) Yeah, I could explain the rules. But it is an uphill battle in business to overcome that initial taint of suspicion. Worse yet are the clients who might see & NOT say anything, giving me no chance to clarify. I potentially stand to lose the worth of the sale horse several times over.

@outside_leg, we were in frantic lease horse search mode all last month. It isn’t hard to gather info about a non-professional rider. I’ve heard of a lot of the AA by 6 degrees. My child can give you a complete rundown of any junior Hunter rider of note in the US. Lol. So with ponies; I can usually pinpoint when in their show career they transitioned to being ridden by a “normal” pony jockey. Anyone I’m unfamiliar with I can simply plug in their USEF # from the horse’s record & see more. Additionally, while my child may disagree :wink:, I do know enough about what I’m looking at to make a reasonably accurate judgment of rider skill influencing the horse’s way of going from watching a video of a course.

There are lots of possible permutations. If you are an experienced person who doesn’t want to take things from the kids, you have many options. HC, riding 2 circles in front of the last fence intentionally, all kinds of things.

If you are a person who is riding for points, you ride for points, and if the show has to combine classes, well, that’s what happens.

I’ve run a lot of shows where really experienced riders came with green horses for mileage, and some rode HC and some did not. Not really my business, because all were following the rules. But it’s quite common that people would have a negative opinion about a very experienced/upper level/whathaveyou kind of situation riding against children just because it’s “easy winning”.

So it really depends, doesn’t it?

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Very well put.

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