Count out loud? I’ve seen it. Many times. And not just in the short stirrup.
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I learn something new on here every day!
My IHSA coach would have people count out loud: “One, two, one, two, let the jump come to you.” All the way around the course, if necessary. He made it part of “the voice in your head” so that by the time you got to the horse show you didn’t have to say anything out loud. He had a very distinctive voice and I can still hear him say it, words paced as a metronome beat for the horse’s canter. Priceless for those moments when you make the rhythm get away from you and need to reset your brain.
And if you are an adult it sounds a little better than singing “row row row your boat” around the course, which I have also seen deployed. The beat of that one goes better with a pony canter.
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I think it all depends on the show and the riders, and frankly I’ve been an adult rider embarassed to compete against Jrs cause they’ll usually whoop my butt haha. But I dont’ think you can just make a judgement over a situation based on the OPs scenario. Is the husband an OK rider on really good horses? Is the division is question flled with a mix of Jr and adult riders or is the trainer husband pretty much the sole adult? If the later, then I’d see it in kind of bad form to do all the time. Its that sort of rider who causes all these rule changes/ restrictions.
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We often count out loud at home in lessons when needed. I also count under my breath at times at shows…does that count as “out loud”? I’ve seen lips moving on juniors, adults and…gasp!..pros! When you lose your rhythm, it’s one good way to find it. (of course, those lips could be swearing, praying or counting, we’ll never know!).
I suspect the OP has a bad case of sour grapes in the barn and is part of it. We are making a judgement without all the information, which will never be right.
IMHO, if you choose to ride in the hunters, you just have to accept this kind of thing. The hunters are not fair. It’s not a level playing field. The best you can do is ride your best and be a good sport.
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I agree with the first sentence.
The rest is confusing to me. Hunters are no more unfair than any other horse sport. They all have their own unique issues but there is not one that is totally ‘fair’. More money and more time will always give someone an advantage over those who have less money and less time to ride.
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Oh, this has been debated on COTH ad nausem. Having spent my entire 45 years in an area that is full of the best of the best for Hunters, Jumpers, and Eventing; absolutely Hunters is the hardest to succeed in if you define success in the conventional sense. A successful horse is going to possess a very unusual set of qualities that, yes, rightfully command an ultra premium price. The overall picture the horse & rider make together is important – you have to look “right” on the horse. The trainer’s connections are paramount. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. Simply that they have to be intimately acquainted with what works in a particular class, at a particular show, with particular judges.
That’s all expensive. If I wanted to buy a division horse for my kid that is capable enough to at least not get us laughed out of the ring at Devon, I’m conservatively looking at low 6 figures. By contrast, a skilled rider with trainer guidance can take a $10-20k horse & make it into something competative at the equivalent levels of jumping or eventing. Even less if you’re lucky. I actually know of someone who went to Rolex on a horse that started out as a $1000 OTTB that no one else wanted.
Does that mean hunters = bad, eventing & jumping = good? Of course not. And I know people who love hunters more than anything (I even live with one!). And I recognize the quiet beauty in a well-ridden hunter round. Does that mean that success in hunters is readily accessible at the same price point as in jumpers & eventing? I know others will come along to disagree, but I say no.
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You are comparing apple to oranges. You aren’t wrong that the hunters are in the pricier end of things and that you need a certain type to be competitive, but you can’t compare the starting point of an OTTB event horse with the price of a finished hunter. The Rolex OTTB is no longer a $1k animal by that point. Plus finding a quality competitive OTTB is tough and usually more than $1k.
A more apt comparison would be buying a nice young unbacked WB versus quality OTTB. The latter is likely to be a fair bit cheaper but it’s not $1000 v $100,000.
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You edited quite a bit after I read this the first time.
I agree with what @Backstage posted.
And for the record, I have known some very cheap OTTB that have had a “skilled rider with trainer guidance” that went on to do pretty darn amazing things in the hunter ring too.
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Another counting my way around Ammie raising my hand … yes you’ll probably even see my lips moving as I count 1,2…it is what it is! Whatever keeps your rhythm!
And to the trainers husband… if he’s in a class he’s eligible for, there’s also no issue either! People just need to learn to win and lose with grace! Children are notoriously hard to beat anyway, honestly, props to any adult amateur that can routinely beat a children’s hunter…those kids generally ride the pants off us!!!
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Am I? Ok. I’m looking at minimum mid-5 figures for an unbroke horse nice enough to go to Devon. To go. Not necessarily pin. That’s roughly the cost of a finished UL eventer.
I’m not hurt if people disagree & I’m not looking to change the old guard’s minds here. Just give perspective.
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Yes! That is definitely one advantage of jumpers/eventing. You’re often riding against the pros, but if you’re in the lower divisions you can still be competitive relatively easily. The pros are doing the lower divisions to bring their green horses up. I have a friend who won at BN, beating a multiple time Olympian. Of course the Olympian was on a super green four year old and she was riding her 13 year old who was an eventing machine. But she was still very pleased, as I would be too.
Overall, jumpers and eventing are very straightforward in regards to scoring. Dressage is really the only part where “opinion” comes into play and even then there is technically a rubric. Hunters is much, much harder and the scores are more opaque and more subjective IMO.
I think overall feelings get hurt and people get upset when there seems to be a mismatch in the event, the rider, and the division they’re riding in. If an Olympian competed in a grasshopper (12”) division at an unrecognized event against mostly young kids or amateurs with super green horses, people are likely to think that the Olympian is out of place. But technically, their entry is legal.
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Looking at my pictures from WEC- my mouth is open in most of them (super classy). Only over fences… I am trying to figure out if it is because I actually breathe once I’m there or it is my final count (but not out loud).
For those who don’t count- I am so envious. I had a friend growing up who could see the distance from like- 6-7-8 strides out in the jump field and call it. It was pretty amazing.
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Admits that they are a counter too. Actually admits they are so much of a counter that they never thought about the fact that some people do not count.
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It is my observation that judging in the hunters is particularly subjective; even when compared to other judged horse sports. Sometimes things matter that shouldn’t: the color of the horse, who is standing at the in-gate coaching, etc. Maybe this matters in some other horse sports, but it certainly doesn’t influence the outcome of – say – a jumper class.
I know, I know, this is a tired COTH discussion! I’ll crawl back to the jumper ring from whence I came.
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Funny (non-hunter) story about color: As a teenager back in the early 90’s, I was a working student at a gigantic, old-fashioned riding school. Dressage was just becoming a thing & the barn held its first ever dressage schooling show. I proudly rode my quirky leased leopard Appy, who was literally the only appy out of the 80 odd horses at the farm. The outside judge commented his color was “a bit loud”.
Even back then, this struck everyone from barn rats on up to the very European head trainer as ridiculous. For several weeks after, everyone made low key fun of the judge’s comment by pantomiming having trouble hearing as me & my horse walked past. Lol.
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Regardless of the “legality” or “legitimacy” it would seem a bad business plan to have the pro’s good riding ammy spouse competing against and beating clients. At barns with a show focus, the goal is to help the clients win. It’s primary color ribbons that encourage people to step up to leases and purchases.
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I really, really appreciate you saying this. I grew up hearing how I was beaten because of politics, biased judging, a judge that didn’t know enough to recognize sore horses, slow horses, whatever. I heard how the winners must have drugged, over schooled, used nefarious tack and training practices, and bought their way to the ribbons. I think the root of this was because I was being taught by someone who was threatened that they weren’t bringing the winner to the ring. (They weren’t a pro, but had a good career themselves as a younger rider and were used to being the go-to or most knowledgeable in other aspects of their life.)
What I didn’t hear was ways to better myself or put a bit more polish on my rides, and what the others were doing right. It took me until my late teens to realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with others riding better than oneself, as long as you yourself are riding as best you can. Start competing with yourself, learning from those who ride well and appreciating others with the same attitude and the whole thing becomes a lot more enjoyable.
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What is funny/notfunny about this is so many trainers use this. A friend’s daughter repeated told me, “”[assistant trainer] said I should have won, it’s all political, etc. What was great was the trainer was a powerhouse and that year also happened to be judging Harrisburg in the fall. So, if there were political points to be disbursed, they would have gone to that kid.
