Talk to me about 'cold laser therapy & equipment'.

[Lieslot]

I recently had a chiropractor out and she used a cold laser on my one horse.
Immediately thereafter and the first following days I believe I saw an improvement in his painlevels.
Horse is in chronic pain, no treatment possible only painrelief, hence always on the look out for things that can make his retirement more comfortable.

Anyone used it?
What for?
What’s a good treatment regime, as in how often/long?
And uhm most relevant question, anyone bought cold laser equipment, what type of unit & cost :eek:?

I looked up the specific laser the chiro uses, but I was rather disappointed when I found it back, she uses an erchonia 5000 and it costs like $13k :(.
I did come across smaller units for about $3k, but not sure if they are as effective, thoughts?

Would love to hear your experiences :).

[Herbie19]

While I do not have any experience with lasers, I do have a magnetic foot pad from www.respondsystems.com. I can without a doubt say that this pad has been the best purchase (other than my horse of course!) I have ever made. They also sell lasers and other magnetic equipment–I highly recommend giving them a call–you can rent a lot of their equipment and they do finance. They are fantastic to work with–I’m actually thinking about buying some hock boots as well once my pad is paid for! Hope this helps.

P.S. I’m assuming that your horse’s problems are in his back? I’ve had a lot of luck with the back on track sheet for sore backs–while it’s not a magnetic blanket, for around $150 it can’t hurt to try!

[deltawave]

See my signature line.

[davistina67]

Have to agree with DW on this. I have never seen any studies that it does a thing in horses and most well known chiropractors recognize this. Anyone seen otherwise?

[Lieslot]

Got ya DW, you mean, “be leery”.
And I certainly am when I saw the cost of that stuff :eek:.
I don’t think it’ll fix anything, but wondered about it being able to lessen pain. Frustrating part he can’t tell me if it’s the laser that lessened the pain or just something else that coincidentally makes him feel better.
If anyone has firsthand experience with it on themselves, please tell me :).

Thx Herbie, I checked their website, seems their lasers are more for small areas. The way the chiro used it, she was able to target large areas in one go, from stifle down to foot or entire rump. But hence the price of the unit probably.
I’d have to talk to them to figure out how their units works.

I love the BoT stuff, got the blankets. It works best when they are new I find, in the first year of use, seems thereafter it’s less effective, less heat reflection.
He’s indeed got spinal issues but at the same time the soft tissues of the hindlimbs are starting to fall apart too, fetlocks dropping, strained suspensories, etc.
Complete sore hindend one could say :(.

[Herbie19]

What about shockwave for the suspensories? My performance vets use that quite a bit on chronic ones, and it would take a while to spend $13,000 on that!

And I know that a lot of people poo poo alternative therapies like cold laser and magnets but I am a believer and the difference in my jumper since using the foot pad has even made my vet a believer! I’m currently using my foot pad daily on one of my other horses with an inflammed suspensory per her suggestion along with (NOT INSTEAD OF) shockwave.

[deltawave]

Being a believer only requires one good story. Being proven safe and efficacious is a bit tougher. I’ve got no beef with beliefs, but when it comes to shelling out my money and putting things in or on my horses, I need a little bit more. To each their own.

[Herbie19]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6082103]
Being a believer only requires one good story. Being proven safe and efficacious is a bit tougher. I’ve got no beef with beliefs, but when it comes to shelling out my money and putting things in or on my horses, I need a little bit more. To each their own. :)[/QUOTE]

Agreed. To each their own. But believe me, I didn’t shell out $3000 on one good story. OP keep us posted on what you decide!

[xQHDQ]

My sister-in-law is a small animal vet that just started using the cold laser on her own pets and her clients. She was very skeptical about it but says she definitely sees improvement in those animals she’s used it on. Her own dog tore her ACL and after using the laser, was sound without surgery.

[Tiffani_B]

There are a lot of clinical trials ongoing for low level lasers as treatment for a variety of things. I did a presentation on it last year - I’ll dig out my sources and post them later when I boot up my other computer. I believe the sources were from the FDA or USDA; I don’t remember now. NASA also has good information on the technology and how it accelerates plant growth.

The research is around red light (LED and laser) between 650-900nm and how it stimulates cellular activity. It has been shown to reduce ulcers in cancer patients, speed up healing in broken bones, and stimulate nerve endings.

I use it during massage therapy to stimulate acupuncture points, and it definitely works in that regard - similar to acupuncture. However, horses can feel it; I cannot. I’ve held the laser a few inches from the skin and a sensitive horse will begin the skin shaking you see if a fly is crawling on them. Me? I feel nothing. But their reaction tells me there is SOMETHING going on and horses are much more sensitive than humans.

A similar technology to relate to is ultrasound, which speeds healing in soft tissue, and it’s thought that the laser/red light works in a similar manner. But unlike ultrasound, the red light therapy does not create heat in the tissue.

I’m always eager to read more research on these new, emerging therapies. They are definitely not the be-all/end-all of treatment, and should never replace a vet, but they can be useful as a drug free means to reduce minor pain and tension, just like massage and acupuncture.

[Addison]

DELTAWAVE love that link!!!

[dressagediosa]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;6082285]
They are definitely not the be-all/end-all of treatment, and should never replace a vet, but they can be useful as a drug free means to reduce minor pain and tension, just like massage and acupuncture.[/QUOTE]

This exactly, for me. I used a laser on a horse who was not unsound but dramatically one-sided, and would, naturally, get very sore as I worked to improve that weaker side. The results were quite impressive - dramatically reduced soreness and stiffness, and our equine massage therapist (who did not know we’d lasered him) noted how much less reactive he was on that side than normal.

We’re also using one regularly on an older fellow who is chronically a little sticky in his body, and I’m starting to play with it as a warmup for my FEI horses, since it is competition-legal.

I’ve used it on myself - I tweaked my achilles tendon over the summer, and I think that it helped to reduce my pain. My doctor - a real MD, deltawave, though I LOVE that link! - said that studies have shown it speeds healing time as well, though I obviously have no way to prove that.

I do want to try a little “study” of my own on a horse with chronic scratches - I want to laser one leg and not the other and see if it makes a difference.

The website is still under construction, but I got our laser from http://multiradiancevet.com/. They have a people branch as well, though I believe the actual product is the same. We use the same device on the horses as I do on myself. They have two units, one in the $4k range, and one in the $2k range.

[Lieslot]

Thx Tiffani & dressagediosa, that’s indeed what I read so far, can reduce pain & speed up soft tissue healing and I read the FDA did some test, but I can’t find real data.
Those units are more in my price range, no way I could afford the erchonia.

I used a laser on a horse who was not unsound but dramatically one-sided, and would, naturally, get very sore as I worked to improve that weaker side.

Where you able to target a larger areas at once with said laser, say like one side of base of neck etc?

I know there’s also infrared ligth therapy & therapeutic ultrasound, but that reads it can be harmful in the wrong hands and can even cause damage instead of healing, but haven’t read anything along those lines of cold laser.

[Tiffani_B]

http://www.coldlasers.org/terraquant/tq-solo-portable/

You can target larger areas; you just move the laser around while you’re working. My only gripe with the above laser is that it’s timed, so you cannot just turn it on and leave it on while you work. When I’m moving through a series of acupoints, I hate having to turn it back on. But for working in one area, it’s nice because then you know how long you’ve applied the light.

[Plumcreek]

I dug up this thread through a search. I am going to try the P3 Cold Laser on my mare with long term bunchy, sore muscles along her spine, and my gelding with old hip injuries. A horsewoman in our area does this as a side job, and treating two horses will cost me $100.at my place. I know these horses very well, so will be able to tell any improvement.

My friend had this person laser a QH mare she bought that had a fairly dead tail from an alcohol block (or multiple blocks). After several cold laser treatments, the mare can now lift her tail to level, so I am willing to give the laser a try on my horses.

[davistina67]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;6177438]
I dug up this thread through a search. I am going to try the P3 Cold Laser on my mare with long term bunchy, sore muscles along her spine, and my gelding with old hip injuries. A horsewoman in our area does this as a side job, and treating two horses will cost me $100.at my place. I know these horses very well, so will be able to tell any improvement.

My friend had this person laser a QH mare she bought that had a fairly dead tail from an alcohol block (or multiple blocks). After several cold laser treatments, the mare can now lift her tail to level, so I am willing to give the laser a try on my horses.[/QUOTE]

If it is a P3, more then likely it is pulse therapy and not a laser. There are several people in Colorado that run around from barn to barn and do P3 treatments. If it is P3, some horses do respond ok to it.

[foggybok]

You can get cheap lasers and expensive ones. In general the difference is in the power. Class IV lasers are the most expensive (the one I want is 26K). The advantage to the more expensive ones is that you can give the required dose (in J/cm2) in a shorter time. To do a large area on a horse you really need the Class IV (although the sales reps from the Class III lasers will tell you otherwise…). Most of the small hand held cheap ones will do little for a horse, although I did use on of those on my own broken arm after cast removal. When I went for my recheck, the ortho guy said “I don’t know what you are doing, but keep doing it, you are way ahead of where you should be”.

I just attended a continueing veterinary education conference and spent an entire morning at the laser sessions. Quite interesting…they are used for a lot of things these days…post surgical wound healing, pain, hot spots in dogs… lots of data out there…

I REALLY want one, but can’t afford it right now…

[crosscreeksh]

I/we having been using a lazer for 35 years with very satisfactory results. Horses, dogs and myself. The pain relief is REAL!!

[WeDoItAll]

I have had success with a product from www.revitavet.com I have to say that I am not educated enough to know if this is what you are talking about, but I have found this item to be relatively affordable (at least compared to $13k) and have used it on various animals with various issues. TB mare with back issues; jumper with laceration that healed more quickly than we expected without it; older QH with problems stocking up that resolved after just a couple of days; dog with patella problem after acute injury who recovered without surgery, any my own pain symptoms relating to rheumatoid arthritis, but don’t tell the FDA.

[Lieslot]

@foggybok

The advantage to the more expensive ones is that you can give the required dose (in J/cm2) in a shorter time. To do a large area on a horse you really need the Class IV (although the sales reps from the Class III lasers will tell you otherwise…). Most of the small hand held cheap ones will do little for a horse,

Yes, that’s what I concluded in the end. I can’t afford the $13k one, so a $26k one is sure out of my range :lol:.

Horse is over 18hh & the chiro used hers to address his entire pelvic area, she managed to do so with her device in one go, the smaller $3k devices only seem able to deal with small areas. I could use a smaller device on his suspensories, but it’s not what I want.
So for now I stopped the search, because in that pricerange it’s a no-no :(.