Hi all,
Long time browser, first time poster, and wondering what you guys think of this OTTB’s bloodlines. I’m looking at him for an eventing prospect and I don’t know that much about the reputations behind the horses in his pedigree. Horse himself is sound with a great mind, just seeing if this can help shed some light on his potential!
I appreciate any and all thoughts you might have for me! 
Don’t click on this until the mods vet it.
There is something odd about this. I clicked on it and it showed a pedigree from an unfamiliar site with a lot of weird advertising. I hope my computer didn’t get a virus.
Love his sire for an event prospect. I’ve seen two who were lovely and on paper he has great lines. AP Indy are proving to be good sport types and I love What a Pleasure lines too. Further back he has many good lines. Dam side has some great old lines up close. Tough and durable lines. I would definitely take a look and if he is the right type…take a chance.
Very nice. AP Indy is one of the current top eventer lines. At one point a few years back Easy Goer topped the jumper sires list .
Too much RAN for my taste personally, but try the horse and ask about his work regime.
I love AP horses - Corinthian is no exception - I think the RAN blood in him is nearly mitigated because he has so much strong blood up close - Nijinsky, Bold Bidder, and Easy Goer have IME put some very sound horses on this earth. But you then see more and more RAN on the bottom, so that would be a concern for me.
I am not so sure say AP is one of the top eventer lines (a little of a stretch) – the top lines for TB at this time, I think, have lots of Bold Ruler & Nasrullah blood… AP Indy just happens to have that, though.
I may try and do an AP Indy project. It would be limited to the horses that are pulled up at the FEI and in a USEF sire search and for USEF sire points, which would mean the sire had to have been reported at the time of registration. I’m not at all convinced about APIndy as a sport horse line. I found from a previous search that FEI results weren’t there. Same was true for his sire. Both searches were while they were active sires. Now that we have more generations, their effect would be less direct, but more widespread, if there is an effect.
Depending on what you hope for a horse, results can mean little, or they can mean a heck of a lot.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8336824]
I may try and do an AP Indy project. It would be limited to the horses that are pulled up at the FEI and in a USEF sire search and for USEF sire points, which would mean the sire had to have been reported at the time of registration. I’m not at all convinced about APIndy as a sport horse line. I found from a previous search that FEI results weren’t there. Same was true for his sire. Both searches were while they were active sires. Now that we have more generations, their effect would be less direct, but more widespread, if there is an effect.
Depending on what you hope for a horse, results can mean little, or they can mean a heck of a lot.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen and known several that are not direct AP Indy but through his sons and few daughters. Mine (Rockstina) will not show up in your search because she was not shown much and is going into the broodmare band. But she did LL eventing enough for me (and a few top professionals) to see the potential and justify adding her for event breeding. She’s been showing as a hunter this year and will be bred next year.
Dang that horse has the “who’s who” of racing in his bloodlines! Affirmed, Alydar, Spectacular Bid, Secretariat, Pulpit, Ninjinsky II, etc… If you get him please post a picture, pretty please. 
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8336824]
I may try and do an AP Indy project. It would be limited to the horses that are pulled up at the FEI and in a USEF sire search and for USEF sire points, which would mean the sire had to have been reported at the time of registration. I’m not at all convinced about APIndy as a sport horse line. I found from a previous search that FEI results weren’t there. Same was true for his sire. Both searches were while they were active sires. Now that we have more generations, their effect would be less direct, but more widespread, if there is an effect.
Depending on what you hope for a horse, results can mean little, or they can mean a heck of a lot.[/QUOTE]
I think this year’s Rolex field has strongly influenced many folks impression of him, as it was the first time I can recall that he made a strong appearance in pedigrees. I believe there were two AP Indy descendants and two additional Seattle Slew descendants through Tsunami Slew. Does that sound right?
I imagine we’ll be seeing a whole lot more of AP Indy cropping up in sporthorse pedigrees just from the sheer number of his sons and grandsons at stud. The Seattle Slew line would have all but died out of both racing and sport if it wasn’t for AP Indy. This year close to 20% of all active TB sires in North America were off the AP Indy/Seattle Slew line.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8336912]
I think this year’s Rolex field has strongly influenced many folks impression of him, as it was the first time I can recall that he made a strong appearance in pedigrees. I believe there were two AP Indy descendants and two additional Seattle Slew descendants through Tsunami Slew. Does that sound right?
I imagine we’ll be seeing a whole lot more of AP Indy cropping up in sporthorse pedigrees just from the sheer number of his sons and grandsons at stud. The Seattle Slew line would have all but died out of both racing and sport if it wasn’t for AP Indy. This year close to 20% of all active TB sires in North America were off the AP Indy/Seattle Slew line.[/QUOTE]
It’d be interesting too, because Slew himself was a bust at UL… but his grandget are, so far, making a good name for themselves.
I like Slew’s line, a lot - we have a Slew in the backyard who is just one of the most honest horses in the world and it seems like most are like that… My experience with Slew descendants themselves is that they have the soundness and the heart but the athleticism isn’t always there. They can clock around a Prelim course but don’t have the fifth leg for UL contention… but they make WONDERFUL mid-level horses. Speaking from experience of course - would be interesting to see how Slew (and now AP Indy) affect future generations.
I’m with Viney that I’m not 100% positive AP Indy is the next big name in eventing BUT I think his progeny will have a lot to offer down the road if paired with a super athletic animal.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8336824]
I may try and do an AP Indy project. It would be limited to the horses that are pulled up at the FEI and in a USEF sire search and for USEF sire points, which would mean the sire had to have been reported at the time of registration. I’m not at all convinced about APIndy as a sport horse line. I found from a previous search that FEI results weren’t there. Same was true for his sire. Both searches were while they were active sires. Now that we have more generations, their effect would be less direct, but more widespread, if there is an effect.
Depending on what you hope for a horse, results can mean little, or they can mean a heck of a lot.[/QUOTE]
Viney, I greatly respect your historical TB knowledge. While you may not be convinced, as someone who’s sat on a few A.P. Indy descendants (and seen several hundred more) I’m a BIG believer in him. So convinced that I bred my UL mare to a A.P. Indy grandson Sightseeing. The A.P. Indy sireline is one of the most consistent I’ve found in producing a sport-type TB. Many of them are also successful on the track, so it does limit the number of them that filter down to sport horse homes. By and large, they have a balanced type, big shoulder, strong hip, good brain and good movement.
This is incredibly consistent across MANY sons and grandsons at stud: Jump Start (sire of Plantation CIC* winner Icabad Crane), Aptitude (sire of AP Prime), Bernardini, Dance With Ravens, Rock Slide, Malibu Moon, Stephen Got Even, First Dude, Old Trieste, Pulpit, Tapit, Purge, Sightseeing, Corinthian, Sky Mesa, the list goes on. All of those stallions repeatedly produce offspring that have the type and balance to be a good eventer.
A.P. Indy in the damline is nearly as good, and you’ll still see the influence a few generations later. Stallions with A.P. Indy on the bottom like Any Given Saturday, High Cotton, and Super Saver have some interesting offspring.
Corinthian has a lovely physical type for eventing: uphill, leggy, and powerful. I’ve known a couple who were a bit squirrely (including one colt who was outright wild) but judge the individual in front of you.
The problem when you get farther and farther away in generations is that the line has less and less influence. All you will be able to say is that the line doesn’t hurt when it’s diluted. It doesn’t say the line is responsible for the performance.
When, over time, you start getting horses with multiple lines to the same animal, and they out-perform horses of that era with none or a single line, then you probably have something real.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8336985]
It’d be interesting too, because Slew himself was a bust at UL… but his grandget are, so far, making a good name for themselves.
I like Slew’s line, a lot - we have a Slew in the backyard who is just one of the most honest horses in the world and it seems like most are like that… My experience with Slew descendants themselves is that they have the soundness and the heart but the athleticism isn’t always there. They can clock around a Prelim course but don’t have the fifth leg for UL contention… but they make WONDERFUL mid-level horses. Speaking from experience of course - would be interesting to see how Slew (and now AP Indy) affect future generations.
I’m with Viney that I’m not 100% positive AP Indy is the next big name in eventing BUT I think his progeny will have a lot to offer down the road if paired with a super athletic animal.[/QUOTE]
IMO, the big key with A.P. Indy is Weekend Surprise. Slew plus Weekend Surprise (by Secretariat out of fantastic Buckpasser mare Lassie Dear) is what works.
Weekend Surprise is also the dam of Summer Squall, Eavesdropper, Tiger Ridge, and Honor Grades… all of which I like more than their typical sires’ get.
[QUOTE=EventerAJ;8337011]
Viney, I greatly respect your historical TB knowledge. While you may not be convinced, as someone who’s sat on a few A.P. Indy descendants (and seen several hundred more) I’m a BIG believer in him. So convinced that I bred my UL mare to a A.P. Indy grandson Sightseeing. The A.P. Indy sireline is one of the most consistent I’ve found in producing a sport-type TB. Many of them are also successful on the track, so it does limit the number of them that filter down to sport horse homes. By and large, they have a balanced type, big shoulder, strong hip, good brain and good movement.
This is incredibly consistent across MANY sons and grandsons at stud: Jump Start (sire of Plantation CIC* winner Icabad Crane), Aptitude (sire of AP Prime), Bernardini, Dance With Ravens, Rock Slide, Malibu Moon, Stephen Got Even, First Dude, Old Trieste, Pulpit, Tapit, Purge, Sightseeing, Corinthian, Sky Mesa, the list goes on. All of those stallions repeatedly produce offspring that have the type and balance to be a good eventer.
A.P. Indy in the damline is nearly as good, and you’ll still see the influence a few generations later. Stallions with A.P. Indy on the bottom like Any Given Saturday, High Cotton, and Super Saver have some interesting offspring.
Corinthian has a lovely physical type for eventing: uphill, leggy, and powerful. I’ve known a couple who were a bit squirrely (including one colt who was outright wild) but judge the individual in front of you.[/QUOTE]
I’m with you, that I just have loooved every AP I have sat on… but, to be fair, several of the horses you’ve listed have not had sound enough progeny for eventing. Dances With Ravens is one - beautiful movement… not much in the way of soundness. And then others, where the influence of sport-horse greatness is IMHO more the damside, Bernardini, Sky Mesa and Sightseeing come to mind.
I’ll say what I’ve said before (on this thread and forum) they have the heart, and most have the soundness – but not all. I still really think AP’s success comes thru because of the Bold Ruler line… Nijinsky is another “superstud” name I think doesn’t get the credit he deserves – he’s far back now in most pedigrees but time and time again you see him pop up in 'chaser and event pedigrees that I don’t think it’s a coincidence.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8337013]
The problem when you get farther and farther away in generations is that the line has less and less influence. All you will be able to say is that the line doesn’t hurt when it’s diluted. It doesn’t say the line is responsible for the performance.[/QUOTE]
Very true. However, conformationally there is something in the line which carries. Similar to Fappiano. It can be several generations back, but that type-- that balance, that higher shoulder placement-- is dominant over a lot of other ancestors.
My lovely prelim horse has A.P. Indy in the 3rd generation, yet is more A.P. Indy-like than his sire Silver Train. From what I’ve observed, that’s not uncommon in this bloodline-- this phenotype carries farther than it statistically should. My horse should show more influence from his dam/damsire than his great-grandsire…but he doesn’t. And I see that a lot in A.P. Indy horses, not all but many. That’s what I mean by “consistency” of type.
Of course there are many other names on the page, and they’ve all added something important too.
I’ve really liked all of the horses I’ve seen by Pulpit or his sons. I have a Sky Mesa mare myself that, after her 2016 foal is weaned, I can’t wait to see what she does u/s! Obviously, you want to judge the individual in front of you, but that’s a pedigree that would get my attention.
I agree with EventerAJ’s observation that AP Indy’s have a desirable “look” and conformation.
While there may be a limited number of Seattle Slews/AP Indys at FEI levels of eventing, they definitely trickle into the hunter market where it is more difficult to track bloodlines and measure success. There hasn’t been much of a market for thoroughbred hunter breeding stallions during AP Indy’s era of domination, but Seattle Slew had several sons who went on to be influential in the hunter breeding world. Houston and Harry the Hat immediately come to mind. Slew O’ Gold was also quite popular among show people.
Right off the top of my head, I can think of a couple AP Indy grandsons standing as TB sporthorses: Baatesh and Friend or Foe. Both have been discussed on these forums at length in the past, which is probably the only reason I’m familiar with them!
It’s not an official study … But following the pedigrees of eventers the names I generally see pop up a lot recently are Deputy Minister and AP Indy. Often as bfne says as a grand kid. One example is Icabad crane http://www.pedigreequery.com/icabad+crane
Who has risen very quickly from OTTB to 1*
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8336824]
I may try and do an AP Indy project. It would be limited to the horses that are pulled up at the FEI and in a USEF sire search and for USEF sire points, which would mean the sire had to have been reported at the time of registration. I’m not at all convinced about APIndy as a sport horse line. I found from a previous search that FEI results weren’t there. Same was true for his sire. Both searches were while they were active sires. Now that we have more generations, their effect would be less direct, but more widespread, if there is an effect.
Depending on what you hope for a horse, results can mean little, or they can mean a heck of a lot.[/QUOTE]
The tricky part about this is that you need the JC names. Most are showing under show names, not their registered jc names .
Let me put it this way: Hippomundo has only 4 A.P Indy sons who have produced for FEI level sport, and no daughters. Sadler’s Wells, who is the European equivalent of A.P. Indy, has 39 direct get who have produced for FEI level sport, and there are only two mares among them.
If I were looking, I’d personally much rather have a Sadler’s Wells descendant.
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